Internet Society participation ICANN 42 meeting 23 October 2011 . >> We have our traditional ISOC and ICANN meeting. As far as I understand, the meeting has realtime transcription. I'm not here to talk much. I would like actually to listen a bit to what you have to say and what you -- what your ideas are for this week's meeting. I think I can this is an important meeting for ICANN. My name is Markus Kummer. And I'm the Vice President for Public Policy and I suggest that we make a way to introduce ourselves and I'd be eded in hearing from you what your ideas are. I'd like to sort out of detail, I assume many of you will be busy with the new gTLD programme. But let's hear from you. And can I ask you to introduce yourselves. Say your name, because for the remote participation. And we would be interested in hearing what your points of interest are during the week. Theresa Swinehart I'm a member of the ISOC Board of Trustees and I'm looking forward to hearing the discussion that goes on here. Thank you. >> I'm a member of ISOC NG and I'm with the managed programme. Thank you. . >> I'm Charles Mark from ISOC Hong Kong. >> I'm (inaudible) member of (inaudible). >> MARKUS KUMMER: So far we have said actually what the particular accent would be for the week. Don't feel shy in saying what I anticipate for the week. >> My name is M. Chong and I'm a Web developer. And I'm a member of ISOC Senegal. Okay. Thank you very much. . >> My name is Binto, I'm a telecommunication engineer and I'm a member of the (inaudible) programme. Thank you. I'm a member of the seb gal Chapter and I'm the President of the next generation team. Thank you. >> Hi everybody. My name is N. Fordelo, I'm a member of the Senegal. >> I'm at the University of Batel. >> Good evening everybody. My name is it. Sila from Seneca news. I got my technology at the University of East London, in the UK. Actually, I'm a new ICANN member. At the same time, I'm manager of Afriqe.Com. And I'm with the Web designing services. I work on servers and DPLs. Thank you. >> I'm at Georgetown University. I'm a member of the ISOC DC Chapter and a member of the board of directors of the Internet Sociaty. >> Hi. My name is car loss Vokuko. Are you there? I'm an engineer. I'm working for Execom and I'm a member of the next generation programme. Thank you. . >> I'm Philip Smith, a member of the Board of Trustees of the Internet Society. My day job is I'm Director of Learning development at Econet. It's one of the Internet registries. And I just joined. Prior to that, I worked for Cisco for goodness knows how many years, doing a lot of network, engineering, I suppose. Some of your -- some of you on have beenbly seen me at Afnog and other events. >> I'm a network engineer. I'm working at the University. And I'm also a member of the ISOC Chapter. And I'm a member of the ISOC next generation leaders, I applied with the IGF fellows in Beijing and I'd like here to thank ISOC for giving me this opportunity to share some experience and to know about (inaudible) now my focus is on IPv6. So I'm a member of the IPv6 Working Group. And I work at the University fov IPv6. >> Wow. I'm humbled. I'm Ted. I'm the senior director for membership and services. And I'm here to learn from you. It's good to be here from the Senegal east Chapter and I'm looking forward to hearing your ideas and your feedback for what Markus has to tell us later on. Thank you. >> Good evening. I'm AKhuchimongi. I'm with the African regional bureau and I'm responsible for regional development. Thank you. . >> My name is p Exronda. I'm from the (inaudible) Chapter. My concern is thisic can organisation is -- this ICANN organisation is mostly dealing with the (inaudible) issues. And we are talking a lot about the names and the geographic domain names and also about the new development on IPv6, because we want to be able to have a good thing. At the policy level we want more African people to be part of this inds kind of meetings to be able to put a voice on the floor, so we can develop our continent. Thank you. >> vshing my name is (inaudible) I'm a research engineer in Amsterdam and I'm also on the ISOC Board of Trustees member. . >> I'm Walda Roseman. I'm happy to meet you. I'm the chief operating officer of ISOC and like Ted M orangesoney and everyone here. I'm interested in hearing what you are doing. If I just mention on the side, I'm just so impressed with what I have learned today from each of you about what the ISOC Senegal is doing, particularly with your next generation programme. And congrat racials to -- congratulations to all of you. . >> My name is Jason Livingood. I'm an ISOC board member. And I also work for a network operator in the United States, leading an engineering group. . >> My name is Narelle Clark. I'm a member of the board. And I feel honored and privileged to be here and join with you. This is my first time in Africa, so I'm very keen to meet people who live here and I'm conducting pro-- and that are conducting projects that are as impressive as the next generation programme and the projects to get the Internet services out to the people and in the community. It's great to hear how you're doing it. >> I'm Jim Galvin. I work for a fill I can't say. I'm -- Ifilias. I'm a member of ISOC Washington, D.C, with Eric, and ISOC Philadelphia, also. I actually live between the two Chapters. Where I live doesn't actually have a Chapter. I have to travel a bit to be a part of things. I just want to comment in general, I've been around ISOC for a long time and the one thing I have to say to the Senegalese Chapter is this is just one of the strongest showings of any Chapter member gathering -- that unless you're at that Chapter meeting, where they are all there. But you Guys coming out. It's just been tremendous this weekend and I just applaud it. It's absolutely outstanding. And I have the privilege of listening in the ISOC board meeting to all of the -- to the report from the ISOC Senegal Chapter and all the things that you Guys have been up to. And it's -- it's just amazing. Absolutely outstanding. So thank you. And it's a pleasure to be here. (Applause) . >> I'd like to strongly second what Jim just said. That was excellent. I'm the President and CEO of the Internet society. It's my second daim in Decaro, but far too long before the meetings. In addition to Jim's comments with respect to the strong showing from the Senegalese Chapter, I'd also like to thank you all again for your support of the ISOC board meet can over the last couple weeks. You provided the network and support services, which were just fantastic. As I said earlier, it's actually noted and thanked in our meeting minutes, which will be published sometime in the future. My specific interests in ICANN this week tends to run for governance issues or larger policy issues. So it sort of runs the whole gamut and I'm very very happy to be here again and I look forward to talking to all of you over the course of the week. . >> My name is Casio, I'm from the (inaudible) Committee. And I'm a member of the new Chapter of nawd nud (Applause) I'm here to learn more about this and what we can do there. . >> Hi. My name is Latra Diaz. I'm a member of the ISOC Portugal Chapter. I work as an advisor. >> Together with Marta, I'm from the board of the Portugal Chapter that was created in the beginning of this year. I am also following ICANN meetings for many many years. I have here been expecting that I attended more than 30 meetings. We decided to create the Portuguese Chapter, but we have been following the I sick for many years. At the moment we are taking advantage of the experience, going on in many other khun trees, in many other regions of the world, and tried to increase the role of Internet in changing the future, especially of the junker generations. >> -- younger generations. >> I'm S. Bijaa. I'm from ISOC Senegal. I'm a member of the new frontier team. It's my first ICANN meeting and I'm happy to be here and I'm eager to learn more about policy, about ICANN and more about the Internet. >> I'm Balma. I'm from Seneca. I work for (inaudible) I'm a member also of the Chapter and I'm a member of the board of interset society currently and serving as the Chair of the board. . >> I'm a late comer. My name is Cheryl Landenor. I'm a member of the Australian Chapter of the Internet Sociaty. I served as the Chair of the African advisory Committee. I serve kurndly and will continue to serve I believe as the liaison to the CCSO and I'm currently the vice Chair of the at large advisory Committee as well. And I'm afraid my heart is just too full of joy to continue because I've been at the most wonderful event and p I know the people around this table. We just met. So I do apologize for my late arrival. But there was something rather important happening. Actually, it's delightful that I'm here. Thank you. . >> My name is (inaudible) I'm working at with the Minister of (Inaudible) and I'm a member of ISOC Senegal. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, good evening. My name is -- I'm the Chair of the ISOC information, and I'm a member of the (inaudible) society and I take part in a lot of other large activities. Thank you. . >> Thank you. My name is Abduhl. I'm a member of ISOC Senegal and I'm working in (inaudible) thank you. >> My name is Aten. I'm a member of the teen. Senegal. >> Okay. Thank you all. I'm with the local Chapter, it's really a stellar performance and I appreciate Alex and all of his team coming. They have done enough and are still doing. Each event is an average of 150 participants and it's really a fantastic performance. I had hoped that we have something like an agenda after the first round, but people are shy of saying what they are interested in at the ICANN meeting this week. Allow me then to ask the Question especially to our hosts, as we have so much talent here. I would be interested in hearing what you expect from the new gTLD programme, as Africans, as Senegalese citizens. What are your hopes? Are there any concerns, maybe? What are your aspirations? If anybody would like to pick up the Question... yes, please. >> Hello everybody. There are two kinds of consumers of Internet. There are the in general, the developers, the analyst programmers, and the others. Those who use Internet. The main programme, I'm talking about my own experience, I'm the captain of the team, which is named Senegals. We are the team and we work in central Africa in a world whid competition, from Microsoft, and we have developed a platform. This kind of population doesn't know about the Internet in general, they don't know about technologies. So the main problem here in Senegal is that -- is the adoption. The problem of adoption. The problem of letting people know that Internet exists, and we have -- we can do a lot of things with that. So, I can, I think ICANN can be a solution to help those who are the characters, those who are the developers, or those who are the, how do we say that, the professionals, and find settings to let people know exactly what is going on in this world. Because we are -- inter-- Senegal is one of the, how do we say, it's a developing country. So, people really don't know exactly about technology. We have to talk about people and we're talking about the real world. I'm talking about people who don't know about Internet and they live here, but they don't know the Internet. So our main problem, professionally, is to have a means to let rural people know that they can use this technology for managing themselves. They can use technology for their work, if I can say like that. My English is so bad. Sorry. . >> Back to the gTLDs. Would a new gTLD, Senegalese gTLD, that this may be adopted to the needs of the rural oplation? Would that help the needs of technology or would it make no difference? >> I don't understand. >> CHAIR: If you have a new local gTLD, apart from the CCTLD, would that help get them aligned, maybe in a local language? >> Yes, it can help. But the problem is -- it would probably be how to introduce this to those people who don't know about technology. We have -- we can have a lot of areas, a lot of platforms, but the next step will be now how can we take a person which -- who doesn't know about technology and who doesn't know about how to use that, to really use that. I'm not sure if I'm understood. This is a problem. I mean, we can -- we can have a thought about how we can introduce to get those people and to let them know exactly about technologies, exactly about software, exactly about what is going on on the Internet and how they can use that for their activities in general. >> CHAIR: Thank you. That was perfect. I may have a point of order. I can't remember all the names at the table. So when you take a piece, reintroduce yourself. It's for the remote participants and for the transcription. There are several very good -- ladies first, yes. (Laughter) >> Thank you. My name is Hober S I. I think the new gTLD programme is a very good programme, because it's an opportunity to give some cup tree to have a brand or a city name after it. But in Africa, we have to take care about our culture, about our -- we don't have enough money to buy some new gTLD for our city. How can we protect our city names? How can we protect our culture, our relation? I have many questions. So I'm afraid with the gTLD programme. Thank you. >> CHAIR: Thank you very much. There was a gentleman there and Alex you wanted to say somethinging -- Alex, okay. Please. >> Alex: He is talking about that. We are very, very privileged with this kind of gTLD. The African people is something to tell -- the people who get money can buy anything. ICANN, it's free. First come first served. I think maybe if we get money out of ICANN itself, we are afraid about that, because how people -- how can we protect our Senegal? It's protected by ISOC rules. But Senegal, it's something free, if you've got money, you can put it online. So this is mainly the -- we have a lot of opportunity in the gTLDs. The problem is access of the programme of gTLDs. So, it's really important for African people to be sure that we can protect our geographic region or maybe some specific terminal fp so it can open up something very important for us, like sub is a hair ran Africa -- subsaharan African. In South America, it's it's we can continue (inaudible) it can be very useful at the business level. We are sure that it's a good opportunity to be sure that we can do -- we can be up on the Web, we can be -- make our appearance on the Internet and we can have African content, maybe these kinds of things we can go more and more an put more an more content. But how do that, exactly, we don't know. >> CHAIR: Thank you for this. This shows the concerns about the early warning system. This is obviously a concern to many countries. But you asked for the floor, please. >> Thank you. I would like to give two answers and two questions if I can. >> CHAIR: That's fine. The name >> My name is Ibrasala. I would like to point out the problem we have here in Africa and here in Senegal, which is the problem that people need and want to learn the Internet, about computers, but the problem is it's not easy to find them. It's not available. And I think that if it was possible for us to get secondhand computers, we could help little kids in high school, primary school. Even if it's two computer per school, that would be good. Then we would be able to train them on use properly computers. The second thing I would like to know is about new gTLDs. Myself, I would like to become a -- (inaudible) so, many cities here in Africa, here in Senegal, the country, the city's name, our city's name. The geographic name. So I was thinking about asking whether ICANN can't create one TLDs. We have TLD as a domain. We do have CCTLDs, country code domain. Maybe ICANN could create something like CCTLDs, which is related to cities and towns. Whether we have French or American or Asian or African, we do have a national one. But I'm not sure about French people -- maybe they could get Paris. If they did, I'm sure they would be happy. I'm sure. And the same Question, (Too close to the microphone) (Inaudible) I was thinking about asking ICANN to have a nawd nud for all countries. ICANN can have a place for Commissions (inaudible) (inaudible) (Too close to the microphone) What I'm trying to say, it's the decision on the meeting that you have. I spoke about this matter to the (inaudible) from somebody else. And I was asking if we can protect the African cities (inaudible) and ICANN maybe can help oversee the country (inaudible) this is a city here in Senegal. Tauba. -- okay. So, if you look at any such -- if you search on Touba, it forms 700s of pages, so if you search on that word, Touba is a symbol of many communities across the world. If you can get Touba, that would be fantastic. But, actually, I'm not sure that it would be classified for us today. Because it's currently very expensive. And the requirement, I don't think that the Muslim or Islamic community, some of those communities can have them. I can say more -- >> CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. That was very interesting and comprehensive. Cheryl you have been waiting for a long time. >> Not too long, thank you, Markus. It's timely that my place in line is after what you have presented to us. One of the things that has taken an enormous amount of -- khairld Lyndon, for the record and for the remote participants. It's taken a lot of time out of my life, and that is Leblanc who is the Chair of the advisory committee. It's something called the joint African work group. On Monday, tomorrow, there is a workshop that I would encourage each and every one of you to be at, if you want to look at the participation in ICANN. This is one of these ideal times. The final report at the JAS work group is all about how we can aid and encourage and facilitate emerging and developing economies or simply gTLD applicants who cannot meet the high, and this is a real barrier of entry, in terms of cost. Not only in the cost relationship of what you need to do with ICANN, but also to assist things such as matching up appropriate registry service providers, and all sorts of things. So there is that, that you all should be looking at the JAS work group, which starts I believe, Olivia at 8:45 in the morning. >> Thank you, Cheryl. It's actually from 8:30 to 9:45 and that will be in the main tent, which is the tent outside the venue. >> And just following on from that, I have heard a number of concerns about names that, in many of -- that remains in many -- names in many of our hearts that we feel belong to our kus country. There are few names that are unique to just one country, so we have a bit of excitement there that can happen. But the process of new gTLDs has a couple of very important critical control points. One of which is when the names is -- are vented and tested for technological and other types of criteria to being met, they are being published. It's early as possible advice, but what it allows is for community objection. And should you believe that your city, your town is being applied for and you object to that, you need to do that. And that is something where a Chapter involvement and in ICANN and making sure that that process is properly handled. And we get it out to the edges of the community where we need to know about it. That's very very important. Appear the other thing I suppose is -- and the other thing I suppose is one thing that I believe Chapters might have a vit part in the new gTLD programme, if it's going to be successful, is that without you, without us, without people at the ground level on the Internet communities in country, the word about what a new gTLD programme is just doesn't get out. It comes back to you. Man in the street does not understand ICANN. Nor do they need to. but they do have certain expectations when they are involved in the Internet. And that's why the activities that you find in an ISOC Chapter, just watching and making sure things are all right in the ICANN process, and my advice is so vitally important. >> MARKUS KUMMER: We have a few late comers. Olivia took the floor. But do introduce yourself in more detail. And I asked the Question, what would be your focus during this week on ICANN matters? . >> Thank you very much. I'm the Chair of the at large advisory Committee, but I'm also with the leadership team of ISOC England. So I'm wearing two hats and swapping between one and the other. My main know can you say at this ICANN meeting is surprise surprise, Chairing the at large meetings, which today, after I don't know how many hours, is a little tiring. But it's fun. And there is one thing that I would like to -- one message that I would like to actually share with people here. The involvement in ICANN is through several Chapters -- several paths. There is the GAK of course, there is the council, the CCNSO, but there is also the individual Internet user and organisations such as ISOC Chapters that can take part into the discussions and bring input into the discussions through at large. At large is a part of ICANN that specifically brings the voice of the individual Internet user, the end-users as they are called, the end-user -- I'm not sure why they are end-users. They are just users. And one thing we have noticed is that there are quite a few ISOC Chapters that are at large structure, as they are called. But there is no one from Senegal yet. So that can be something that could spring, have a local Senegal Chapter and I do hope that afterwards perhaps we can have a chat on this. I also heard about the CCTLDs, and the use of -- well, the joint African support programme and so on. At large has been a very strong proponent of the joint African support programme, because we believe that politically it would be completely improper for ICANN to launch a new gTLD programme without taking into account the fact that the people who will play not only come from North America and from western Europe. It's a global Internet. It has to be a global process for everyone. And just like the Internet is for everyone, the matter of the ISOC, I think the -- I think the whole project believes that the project should be for everyone. So that is the message I wanted to convey and I thank you for allowing me to do so. >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you. And Alejandro Sebastian? >> Good evening. My name is Alex Pisanti. I'm from ISOC Mexico. I may just say that I've been in the ICANN -- I was on the ICANN bore for eight years, vice Chair for six. And spent four years as trustee of ISOC. My main focus in this meeting is the following: I am the Chair of a Committee. It is called the review team for stability, security, and resilience of the DNS. This Committee is formed under the affirmation of commitments. So that means, in practical terms, that what we do is an audit of ICANN's way of complying with the function of preserving and enhancing the stability, security, and resilience of the DNS. And we do this in institution of the U.S. Government. In the previous structures of ICANN, ICANN had a contract with the U.S. Government. It was seen as a supplier to the US government and there was a checklist, a verification list, where the government would say well, how much did you help security? How much did you help Democratic policy development and so forth? And now this is not done by the U.S. Government, but by this review team which is charged by the ICANN and the GAK chairs. We have made some problem in this review and it's important for you both interests of this issue to tell this community and help this Committee know where you think that ICANN is enhancing the stability, security and the ability to rebound from trouble, which is resilience of the DNS, and where it's failing or actually causing risks by instabilities, for which other people may not think of. This is a very interesting systemic thought. And I'm also going to use the chance provided by -- I'm happy to be the speaker after Olivia. To speak about the -- as Chair of ISOC Mexico, I'm also the representative of ISOC Mexico in the Alac structure for Latin America. I share that space gladly with people like Sintra and a few others here. I think to do everything, which is be the space where users of the Internet interested in the Domain Name System, in the IP addressing system, in the way ICANN manages its databases of technical protocol parameter, it's not only about names, because that's the at large. Everything is is the on GNSO. So we talk about CCTLDs, first. And second, the at large doesn't care whether you are commercial or noncommercial. So that is another conceptual important difference with the noncommercial space of the GNSO. You may have a small business, maybe you run a lawyers's office and yoo you have a domain name for your lawyer's office, maybe you have a small engineering consultant see and you have a few domain names there. You have part of the ALAC without a problem, without being a civil society representative because this is at large users. The space has been occupied by a specific concept of civil society organisations. And it doesn't have to be. And that is one point. I'm glad to see that Olivia was -- everyone watching Olivia seems to agree with me by nodding his head. And another important point that I want to add is at large has a good name in many ways and at large users have a good name, such as like Roberto in previous years. It has a more limited. Influence on the -- tawd tawd it's not helping itself about how to participate, how to come in together, how to translate it into 25,000 languages, about all the procedural things. The perception this causes for the at large is, I heard it several times last time in a technical meeting this week, in Rome, people think at large is only about tickets. It's only about struggle. That's what we hear. It hurts. And there are -- there are concrete policy proposals put forward by the at large. They are not efficiently conveyed by the fact that whoever inspects our discussion list of the at large will see things about how to get organized, how to get reorganized, and how to get prioritize who goes where. And there is very little substantial content in those discussion lists in the documented discussions. And personally, I think that other organises may want to do what have they want to do in the at large. ISOC Chapters, we are different. ISOC is about the confluence of technical knowledge, of social service, of we are oh and we are supported by very important businesses who deal with ISOC very transparently. And therefore our differentiation within ICANN and in particular with the at large must be the build up of technical knowledge and technically infused and informed policy proposals. >> MARKUS KUMMER: Can we hear from Sebastian? An ICANN board member. . >> SEbastian: Thank you very much. I am from France. I am a member of the French Chapter and some other Chapters around the world. Because I think it's important when I go and spend some time in one country to be with the local people and I have some country where I go, sometimes quite often then I try to get in touch with them. Australia and some other places. I'm a member of ICANN, I was elected, selected, how you want to call that, selected, by a process of the much organisation within ICANN, the at large structure can the at large organisation. You heard Cheryl, Olivia and Alex talking about it. And I was mainly concerned during this week it's one to be able to listen to you, to hear from you on different topics. I would like to remember that there are at least two sessions, one the Chairman talked about, the application support, and we will have a discussion tomorrow. And a meeting about digital. Because some Question, I heard some Question here, you need to learn. Because saying that it's not the right way. And I don't know how you can -- ICANN -- I can try to answer some questions. I wouldn't do that now, Markus, except if you ask me later, but I think that it's important to understand the programme. I know it's complicated, because it's a lot of pages, you need to take time. But if you don't want to read all those page, at least go to the presentation of the programme, made for a newcomer here, and you will get some answers. Practice for example, the Question about Dacart, it's clear. All the p capital of each country are protected. And I can give you some of the answers. You need to know -- Dakar) you need to know that we -- we want you to spipd a lot of time in understanding. But if you want to be involved, you need to understand what is the programmes. And try to find the way. If you don't find the right people, if you don't at the enof all of that, come to me and I will try to get you in the right answer. p and there are -- two other topics, we really want to hear from you. It's -- the discussion about conflict of interest and ethics within ICANN. And the second one, it's about the -- whap you would like to see -- what you would like to see as the knowledge as well -- what are the strengths for the future, because we are, as you know, in the process to start recreate -- start a recreatement period. And we want to hear from the bottom, because we think that it is a bottom up process and it needs to be multi-stakeholder and all of that. I just want to A one thing of what Alex told you. He is the Chair of this team. But his name was put by at large. And -- and that is -- that's to assure you that at large, it's much more than already a very big organisation with Cheryl and now you are sharing this organisation. It's you, we remember. But there are other people in this arena who are still some link with at large and I hope to be part of those people. Thank you. >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you. You may come to regret your offer. (Laughter) But you also raise a few other points. And there are a few people in the queue from remote participation. And I'd be curious to hear what they have to say. >> Okay. The first person is Joli. Ask your Question. . >> Okay. Can you hear me okay? . >> Yes. >> Okay. Well, I'm sorry that I can't be there. You know, I'm Joli McFee. I'm in New York. I have a few points. One we are an at large structure in the North American region and I'd like to just thank Olivie for his work as Chair. Great work. And I see that he is standing for re-election, I would say that we support his re-election. I would like to thank Sebastian for his work on the board. And I thought his suggestion in Singapore, that we announce a second round as soon as possible so everything is not panicking from the first round of gTLDs was a very good suggestion. Within ISOC I don't think we discuss ICANN affairs enough. I asked for and we have set up a discuss list, ICANN discuss, and I encourage people to join that list and to talk more about it. Issues that -- here that we are concerned about, especially the -- to join the African support Working Group and I'm going to get up very early in the morning to try to attend that meet can remotely. -- that meeting remotely. And another thing that has come up up is review of the UDRP process. It's about time that we have another look at it to see how well it's working, speaks leashly with the -- especially with the new gTLDs arriving. The next topic is the main names feature. So much is going in, in America where we have Hillary Clinton talking about Internet freedom and on the other hand we have the Department of Homeland Security wholesale grabbing the names. And I think this is to be raised in the public forum. So I'm hoping that that will be talked about. The next topic is city TLDs. And it was already talked about. Here in New York City, we are hoping for a dotnyc GLD. And we have one member saying this shouldn't be a cash cow for the city. It should be used as a public resource. So the Question is, what is the balance between localities making money from that GLDs, and the. Public resource? We need to work together and maybe make a model for cities that people can use to figure out how they are going to deal with it. A suggestion of a clearinghouse for city names I thought was interesting, and something that Sebastian says there is already a provision, but I don't know of it. And the last thing is we should all be very concerned about who should be the next CEO of ICANN. We have seen that on the back strong, you know, it became a little more top down than perhaps we would like and we need someone who respects, you know, the bottom up multi-stakeholder process a bit more. Okay. Thanks. >> MARKUS KUMMER: Well, thank you for that. You are the most faithful remote participant I've ever come across and I can assure you that the issue of DNS is high on our list of priorities and it came up during the board meeting, the meeting of the board with the PIR board and those at the joint meeting of the ISOC board and the ICANN board. This is something that we attach great importance to. It's an issue of concern to ISOC. Other participants, please? >> There is one more Question from Mr. Fiser Hassan from the ISOC Dakar Chapter. He does not have a microphone so he typed in his Question and I'll read it out. So the Question is: The gTLD is an excellent initiative. No doubt. But many people in developing countries do not know much about it. Is there any I can cab or ISOC initiative -- ICANN or ISOC initiative to conduct introductory sessions in developing countries to inform people about the application rules? And is there any consideration for reduced rates for developing countries? >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you. I think Cheryl has already answered to parts of that. Is there anybody else who would like to comment on that Question? If not, I would also like to turn maybe to other regions. We have representative Casio from Brazil, Latin America, do you have comments? Or Charles from Asia Pacific? Hong Kong? No particular concerns, no particular comments? Please? >> Well, like I said, I'm learning here. I'm working. Our Chapter is starting next month and after that, we will start to make, I hope, make things so that we develop our Internet and permitting users more activity in it. The new gTLDs, personally, I am one opinion and I see this -- say this very carefully. I think we can have a big problem, that is my opinion, personally. >> MARKUS KUMMER: okay. >> I'd wait a little more so we can say more. >> MARKUS KUMMER: I wonder if Sebastian would like to respond, especially on the Question whether enough has been done to make the programme well- known for the developing world. >> BELARUS: We are still in cushion -- >> SEbastian: We are still in discussion about this communication problem. Write it well, please. Go to the street, not the name of the CO, but it's going country to country and other approximate staff are doing the same thing. And you may see the show coming to your country or to your region, and if it's not -- if you don't see it, quickly enough, just raise a point, see the Web site or send e-mail to staff or to me if you don't get all of those first. The Question about fee, it will be discussed tomorrow morning. I encourage you to come. You will have better information. If I try to summarize in five minutes, it will be bad. You will lose five minutes and tomorrow morning you will have good people to talk to you about that. And with very good knowledge. And I hope some answers, better than what I can do today. Thank you. >> MARKUS KUMMER: You wanted to say something? >> My name is Chumo Budwa. I come from USC. I'm an ISOC member. Excuse me. My English is very poor. But I ask you to just understand what I want to say. The problem about gTLD is very important. It's a big Question all in my country. I think now, if you don't extend very well what -- how to manage CCTLG, that is a problem. And now, we are asked to introduce a new concept about new gTLD. That is also an important matter. I want to just ask ISOC, because we have many -- we have some supports about timing. That is good. There is a technical community and for m people they understand what, what is digital technology. But I think it's better to assume to give good information to the public. And now, I want just to ask how is the strategy? We start to use public media, like television, radio, so the public can understand what is needed to do. What is gTLD, what is CCTLD. I think it's better to have public support with things like that. And we can see what we can do. Because the people don't understand, but it's a big problem for the community users. Thank you. >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you for that. Shelly would like to answer the Question? >> Cheryl for the remote participants and for the transcript record. But you raise a very important point and it's one that the at large community and the ALAC has been closely working with not just the new gTLDs, but in all things in policy development that are of interest to us, and that is the outreach ability. One thing we have done with ICANN communications is more and more of the pod casts and p get to the edge type material and it is the sort of thing of course that we can, should the need be identified, doing various sorts of local languages. So we can in fact have the same script and sub titles, perhaps, of the videos that are being prepared. The ICANN communications group is an entirely different face than what it was. We, for example, in the at large community think to get radio. People use radio in a large number of communities. It's not all high tech and TV. And they are listening to that. So I think there are opportunities. But to some extent it's up to us to say what we want them to produce as well and how -- what type of delivery we would like it in. So if any Chapter has a need we have a request with ICANN communications to put it in forms to say we want something done. >> Thank you. We have a regional director for Africa who approached us and he said he sees a need for a policy handbook for policymakers, which would explain many of the very basic questions that are mentioned, what is a CCTLD, what are the various institutions, nothing fancy, just really who is who in the world of the Internet and what is what. And we will welcome that. We have a lot of material on the Web site. It's just a question of collating it. . >> (Off microphone.) >> MARKUS KUMMER: I wonder whether we have exhausted the issue of -- it was a very interesting discussion. Yes, please. >> I'm not speaking on behalf of the board. I'm just an ISOC DC member. And what I would -- actually urge people, because I heard a lot of concern about gTLDs, from oh he just tonight. -- just tonight. If you're concerned about the safety and security of the Internet, if you're interned -- and it may be that Dakar may or may not be protected. But if someone disspells is DAKKAR, they probably will get that TLD with not too much problem trouble. They may or may not. >> Sorry. Sorry. >> Okay. I would just suggest that you do learn as much as you can, as quickly as you can. And make your concerns known. This is a multi- stakeholder organisation. And make your concerns known through a lack of individuals and perhaps through your government representatives through the GAK. >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you. A remote participant? >> Yes, we have S. Manyan from ISOC India. p (Joly Mac Fie) . >> Please go ahead. . >> Hello? I'm Shaval from ISOC. Hello, can you hear hee? Hello? >> We can hear you. Please go ahead. >> Hello? I'm Sivar from ISOC Chen nay. I just wanted to -- C herennai. I just wanted to say hello. I've been a member of ICANN for three or four meetings, but this meeting I could not be there in person. But still it feels great to join you for the remote participation. Hello to everybody. One. >> Thank you. I think he just wanted to say hello. >> Thank you for that. There is another Question? Yes, please. >> Hi. Thank you, Chair. My name is are Pu a,nan. This Question should be going out to maybe the board members or maybe the senior ISOC. >> I do want to make a -- I didn't want to make a speech and I don't have a point. So I just said hello. >> Yes? Okay. Punan: I just -- certainly, this is a great place for ISOC Chapters to be represented within ICANN. But, I just wanted to get your perspective on the not-for-profit -- the NPROC, the not-for-profit operational consumers, which now for -- is now under NCC. >> Noncommercial -- to just clarify. The noncommercial stakeholder group within the GNSO has component parts. One of the component parts is the preexisting Noncommercial user constituency, NCUC. A new component part is the NPOC, the not-for-profit operational concerns. And we may -- I trust -- get other component parts joining the noncommercial stakeholder group as well. You can, by the way, join as individual members. A little known fact that I think needs remedying. >> Thank you. >> Punan: So I just wanted to get an idea of what the feeling of joining is at large and within the other groups of ICANN. >> Alejandro: Thank you. I think this issue is very important. There is a lot of history and politics between groups behind this. This is not an issue that is easy to solve only on principles or on reasoning by what you read, that the groups want to achieve. There is a lot of politics within groups that people don't want to get together or people want to keep territories. So, my recommendation in particular is ask before you Act. >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you. >> As Chapters, I think it's a very individual decision with what principles you identify and what people you identify. It's only that we cannot be naive. So look at what the actual politics are and above all I think for ISOC Chapters it's very important to keep our independence. So, for example, not joining one of these communities, if you don't feel that you're going to be able to promote your agenda or whatever is our collective agenda, it's a very open one, this is not a political party, but to promote ISOC principles. ISOC principles are pretty clear. An open interoperable Internet, technically informed, open, transparent decision- making. Other people -- many constituents, many groups speak about open, transparent, Democratic. We emphasize or my opinion we need to emphasize technically informed, going to preserve the interoperability of the Internet. We have done a lot of work to understand how deep that goes. So make sure we're not just supporting someone with our numbers, who is not actually going to promote these values. >> This is Charlie. I step in here and say the situation at the NC SGis new. We only just approved the Chapter and the NOPOC is only the second constituency of. At the moment, you know, with the upstart constituency, there is a little bit of stress there. But as time goes on, there is probably going to be a lot more contis been sees and there is not a real rush. So we should sit back and let things develop as they go along. Approximate >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you. You have the floor. >> I do have a question, actually. The name of this session is Internet Society participation at ICANN 42 meeting. And I think because we're all Chapters of course, we try too focus on Chapters. And when other constituencies spring up in the ICANN model, there are Chapters joining the other constituencies. This is a very open Question and not with any intent. But has ISOC ever thought about joining any specific constituency or any formal input into the process? It's a question. I don't know. There is just something that has gone into me like that. Sorry, it might be totally wrong. I don't know. And by ISOC, I mean the ISOC headquarters organisation. >> Alex Pisanto: I'm offering this so there doesn't have to be an official sometimes. To make an official statement. This is a good issue for which you -- ((Off microphone.) >> Alex: But I just want to bring in a point of history. ISOC was among the founding members of the noncommercial domain main holders constituency, which then became the noncommercial users constituency. I also remember we posted that change because we felt that it was not about all users, but it was domain name holders. People who have ak active interest directly involved in the domain name market, that general users were in this at large space. So Don Heath who was the predecessor of Lynn represented ISOC. Some Chapters joined independently. There are still some Chapters there. And as well as in the at large. So, that may spare the need for an official statement. >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you Alejandro. Would you like to comment, Lynn? >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: I don't think there was ever any corporate for lack of a better word objection. It was more, you know, with respect to the activities of the time and how active that was, and frankly ISOC was much smaller and not so well resourced. It was we had to put attention to anything that we needed to. One of the things that ISOC does in general, I think to answer the broader sort of Question, is not want to be a separate constituency withinic can. You know, -- within ICANN. ISOC has many many many members with many different interests, and we want to encourage those individuals, so this is not a requirement on an ISOC member, it is not a requirement of ISOC Chapters. There are Chapters that have a wide range of interest, some at ICANN, others more in other areas. But those individuals who have an interest in participating in ICANN participate in ICANN in the activities or groups or communities or constituencies that meet those needs. We are not lookingor a matter of a force, factor, player, constituency, whatever word you want to use, within ICANN. And that should know bevr interpreted as any kind of lack of support for ICANN. ICANN plays a very critical role in the Internet ecosystem. We have been, we have been supportive of ICANN before there was an ICANN. Alex and myself and others baim ultimately became ICANN. If as an individual you're interested in ICANN's activities, you should participate in them. We hope that doesn't take too way significantly from your ISOC activities, you know, and I think otherwise Alexandro said it well >> And my understanding of the -- understanding of the value of a meeting like we are having right now is that we all share experience, discuss among ourselves, learn from each other, and also learn a bit what are the ISOC principles. I think that came out repeatedly this evening, that we stand for an open Internet. And when we say open we need it. And other people may say open and may not mean it. So I think that is -- is what -- is what is the common link between all of us here in this room. >> Olivai. Thank you. I learned something today. So I'm happy and I think it's a very fair answer. Thank you. >> MARKUS KUMMER: You were next? Why don't you come here. . >> I think some Chapters become barriers for initiatives. Because we had that experience in my country, some people p -- some prels go to ISOC and the feedback comes to Chapters, and the Chapters refuse to give -- to approve the initiatives. That is not the first time. I think fp this happens in this country. Just some Chapters -- clearly it's a problem. I think we have to see that programme to see how I coc can support incentives. (ISOC can support incentives. >> >> MARKUS KUMMER: There will be another meeting on Tuesday more devoted to Chapters. And my colleague will Chair that meeting, and I think Ellis CEN to concerns and -- and he will 7s listen to concerns and he will have answers to that. But, I mean we have taken notes. (He will listen) Have we exhausted the issue of new gTLDs? Not quite yet? It's a complex issue. (Laughter) Thanks a lot. >> Normally it's about Committee matters. Whether there are Christian communities or Jew communities or whatever communities, we have to make sure that (Again, this person is too close to the microphone) (Inaudible) (inaudible) in any language we need to be protected or need to be put into (inaudible) and that person is applying for (inaudible) but they need to be sure, very clear, digital information and why he is willing to create that Mecca. A person who wants to create that (inaudible) or that Question or that view we need too show why he is interested by doing that. Because if you don't know, soon we are going to go to the international communities and (Microphone is too close to the speaker's mouth) And at that time, it's not -- (inaudible) communities and civilizations (inaudible) and I feel like we have to do (inaudible) thank you. >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you. I think it's a concern shared by many. And it was a concern voiced also by the (inaudible) and that's why they have this early warning system. As I said earlier, we cannot go into too much detail to answer all the questions. So I very much encourage you to go to the sessions where these difficult issues are being discussed, voice your concerns. There are people who have the answer. There are people who spend a lot of time thinking about it. I mean, the handbook is very thick, that is something that -- many people have actually read it in all that detail. Except maybe the lawyers who hope to make money out of it. But, Sebastian made the point that the policy process is open. The doors are open. The microphones are open. Anybody who has -- who wants to say something, who has to ask a question, can do so. Sebastian was asked a question and supported by Joly and this time they brought up the process of change and the new President and CEO. And I think it will go too far to open that Question right now. But therely about a session devoted to that and you can all participate and say what are the criteria that you expect. I think it's a very good example of and open policy development process. I don't think there are many organisations, companies, that do that, that have a public hearing of what should be the criteria for selection of our President. So you can encouraged to participate in this, to say what kind of leader you would like to see. It's not a discuss about discussing who it should be, it's more discussing the criteria for selection for this person. I think it's an important part of the meeting. My feel is that we have had a very interesting discussion. I think I could hear the peer concerns and I think you make good points. Actually, the new gTLD adds another layer of complications which may make it more difficult for developing countries to explain it to their constituents, and I think that came across very clearly from our hosts who participated actively in the discussion. It will be a challenge. There are no simple solutions, but we certainly appreciate if you would make your voice heard. One last note, we have a very active Chapter here in Senegal. And when we discussed with the board this afternoon the idea came up that we could have maybe some cooperation in certain areas, such as remote participation. ISOC uses a no participation. -- uses remote participation. ICANN uses remote participation. Maybe we can try to pool resources. At the IGF, which was my previous field of activity, we had excellent experiences with so-called remote hubs, that we have encouraged people to group together usually in an academic institution, where they participate together to a meeting. Usually it's a group of 20, 30, 40 people, all over the world. And I think this could also be a role for ISOC Chapters to be remote hubs for ICANN meetings. And if we have a very strong local Chapter here in Senegal, I would like to explore this possibility, how we could facilitate this and see, it could be one way of actually facilitating remote participation in ICANN meetings by taking on this model of remote hubs. If nobody else has anything to add to the discussion, which again as I said was very rich, then I would like to close the meeting. But before I close, I am asked to readout that we are bringing in some salads and sandwiches, and you are all welcome to participate in eating these salads and sandwiches. (Laughter) But we have to finish the meeting now. We have a hard stop, because the audiovisual crews have to finish at 9 o'clock. Just one sentence by our board member, ICANN board member, Sebastian. >> The schedule for Monday changed dramatically. And you have to look at that. The reason was because the President of the country was to come and we have to adapt our organisation to that. It's a pity, because he may have -- you may have organized in other ways. But look at calendar for tomorrow. It's important if you don't want to miss your meeting. If there is a place that you want to go. And the first meeting in the tent is about the group. It's on an line calendar, not on paper. Because it was done today. >> And Sebastian looks like he speaks from a higher authority so we should take this. >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you very much for your active participation and I close the meeting and I invite you to join and engage in planned discussions over a piece of salad and sandwich. (End of meeting)