You are connected to event: CFI-RPC11 (A CART Captioner is present and standing by.) . RAW FILE INTERNET GOVERNANCE FORUM 2016 ENABLING INCLUSIVE AND SUSTAINABLE GROWTH JALISCO, MEXICO 9 DECEMBER 2016 WS97: HOW TO CREATE RELEVANT INTERNET GOVERNANCE CONTENT 9:00 Services Provided By: Caption First, Inc. P.O. Box 3066 Monument, CO 80132 1 877 825 5234 +001 719 481 9835 www.captionfirst.com *** This text is being provided in a rough draft Format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) or captioning are provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. *** (WS97: How to Create Relevant Internet Governance Conten (WS97: How to Create Relevant Internet Governance Content.) >> Good morning, everyone. Thank you very much for weekend us this morning. I know it's Friday. I know we are all tired, but somehow full of new knowledge -- yes. Oh, I'm just talking to people. (Laughter). Thank you, Glen. I'm supposing for the picture. Okay. Thank you very much. (Speaking Spanish). Thank you very much for being with us this morning. After a very interesting four days of activities you are full of new knowledge. You are full of new questions, and we want to discuss with you something that many of us in the panel and I'm sure that many of you care about, which is -- where do you go to find relevant information about Internet Governance content? Which websites you consult? Which books you care? You find it relevant? You don't find it relevant? How relevant is those of us who participate in this space, and having this content and how easy is it to create it and how do we get input into this different spaces about content? How difficult it is if it's another language, which are the barriers, who may be capturing those paces? So for trying to create a dialogue about these issues we have a group -- first of all, they are all good friends of us and professionals that are related somehow with this issue and with the Internet Governance environment. So I will let them briefly introduce themselves from -- starting from Claudio on my left, and then ending Renata and then I will give the floor to my friend Dustin who is coordinating this -- this workshop with me. This workshop is organized by ICANNWiki, the organization which is now called -- help me. Association Internet Americas. Thank you for being with us this morning so early. Claudio? >> CLAUDIO LUCENA: Thank you very much, Olga. Good morning, everyone. I'm Claudio Lucena. I'm a president from the law faculty. I come from computer science and law backgrounds. Currently I'm a research for the foundation of science. And I'm with the research center for the future of law, currently researching the governance of algorithms. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you. >> CYNTHIA SOLIA: So my name is Cynthia Solis. I am lawyer. I'm sorry. And now today, I'm representing the national polytechnic institute and I am professional on cybersecurity but also I am teacher of the server security topic in the master of engineering in security. >> I'm currently working as a cybersecurity policy consultant in the Taber security at the Organization of American States. >> CATERINE GARCIA P. VAN HOOGSTRATEN: G Good morning, cater Rinn Garcia van Hoogstraten, I have come with the Dutch, working for Hague university of applied science, the center for expertise, Webster University and women in cybersecurity as West Nile Virus. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you. >> EDMOND CHUNG: Edmond Chung here, we are a top level domain registry but we are operated as a nonprofit organization. So we end up creating a number of different communities for Internet Governance related, including from promoting new details and acceptance of those top level domains to youth engagement to, in fact, helping tigers and promoting the SDGs. >> Good morning. I am a researcher from Brazil and also participant here in IGF of the MAG for civil society and the Best Practice Forum for cochairing gender elect in access. Also apologize for being a bit late. We have the main session on BPS today, but -- but we work in researching Internet Governance in Brazil, me and my colleagues and building materials being content related to Internet conference government building and social media, and other platforms. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Also on my side, I have Dustin Phillips. He is from ICANNWiki, and the workshop is organized with help from the Internet Society Argentina chapter and we have a promote participant, that's Nadira Alaraj. I'm told that the video is good and the audio of the remote participation is good. So we hope that you can join us remotely in a moment. So I will give the floor to my colleague Dustin -- oh, by the way, my name is Olga Cavalli. I don't know if I said that. I will give the floor to my colleague Dustin. He will give a general introduction of what we intend to talk in this hour and a half that we have this morning and then I will go to our speakers referring to some questions that we have thought and then maybe we can start a dialogue with you. >> DUSIN PHILLIPS: Thank you, Olga, and thank you, everyone, for being here. The topic of this workshop is creating Internet Governance content that is relevant for people across the world, and we talk a lot about making the multistakeholder model and Internet Governance inclusive, but can it truly be inclusive if we are excluding anyone who doesn't speak English? There's a lot of great content out there in English, but there are certain barriers to translating that content, making it available, and making it relevant. I'm sorry for doing this so early in the morning, but I want to have a little bit of audience interaction here. Can I just get a raise of hands for everyone who speaks a language other than English as their native language? >> OLGA CAVALLI: Wow! >> DUSIN PHILLIPS: Yes. See? This proves my point because right now we are in this workshop, where there is no translation, and that's a problem! Because the perspectives that we need in order to find out how to provide relevant content to people they are not able to take part in this discussion because we don't have the translation available. So we need to do a better job as a community of being more inclusive of different cultures and languages. So in this workshop, we just want to exchange ideas about these challenges that we're facing and how we can make Internet Governance content multistakeholder, diverse, multilingual and inclusive for the sustainable growth that has taken such a prominent role in this IGF. So with that, I'm going to turn it back over to Olga and let her take it from there. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Okay. Thank you, Dustin. And as you can see, many of us are Spanish speaking persons because we are from the region, and we organize a very interesting open forum the other day with the Internet association of the Americas and Infotech and we decided to make it in Spanish because all the speakers spoke Spanish, but we have no transcript. One plus and one less. But we have the video and the video is very good. So that's a source of information. So I prepared some questions for our speakers and given the fact that Renata has to maybe leave us early, I would maybe, if you allow me change a little bit the order and I will allow -- ask a question to Claudio. Portuguese Spanish content, Portuguese is very -- it's spoken by many people, millions of people, but I think that a challenge for Portuguese speaking content or producing content is that countries that speak Portuguese are spread all over the world, which is somehow different from Spanish, that it's more or less concentrated in the Americas and in Spain. Of course, Latinos are all over the world. How difficult it is to create Portuguese. What I have noticed also is whenever -- every time I go to Brazil, all of my Brazilian colleagues do speak Spanish but Argentineans don't. We speak an invention from Argentina and I have learned Portuguese. It's a language that I love, but I think Brazilians do care about the language that are surrounding their country and I'm not sure if others do care about the importance of Portuguese in the creation of content and the interaction in between especially colleagues in Latin America and other regions where people do speak Portuguese. So I will let Renata start with some comments about this. >> RENATA AQUINO RIBEIRO: Thank you very much. Indeed, it's interesting how we think about many dimensions of Internet Governance. For example, bringing youth and we don't think about the youth not being fluent English speaker yet. So we have here a huge group from Brazil of young, smart, independent and very, very resourceful Internet Governance attendees in IGF who do not have any content. All the time we are attending sessions, we are discussing with you. Even our tweets, we go out in broken English tweets. So it's indeed very important to think about this, and not only from the -- I think from really the access to information aspect, but from the multicultural aspect. Latin America is diverse. So we are a very diverse continent. We also even have Dutch and French and most of the people don't know this. So we are sort of blocked into a cultural content which does not identify us. And when you talk about Brazil, you also have the different dimensions of Brazil. You have the Amazonian Brazil, and we have the other regions. When you come to the Amazon region, there are four of us here. Our language and our culture is very important. Our Portuguese colonization is a part of us. So indeed, we do relate to content that does portray us and we try -- we also do try the best we can just like the invention of Portono to cross over. We do also try to make ourselves understood. So we need your help. We need all of you on -- here on the session now, on the virtual room to talk to us. Talk in your language and we will respond back. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you, Renata. Claudio. Sorey to put you on the spot. I know you are Brazilian. >> CLAUDIO LUCENA: You just have to pay a price for being a Brazilian. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Of course. Of course. >> CLAUDIO LUCENA: There's something you mentioned in the beginning. The impressions that Brazilians care a lot for another language. I think there's a new generation of Brazilians that do care but it's not yet a general sense, not at all. I interact frequently with Russian friends from the higher school of economics. We had one fellow from the higher school of economics here, and I have the same impression that in Russia everyone speaks English, because my environment, when I arrived there, is an environment of English speaking people. So I have this impression. And they do say the same thing. There say a new generation of Russian professionals who are trying to speak another language. But it's not a general thing. I don't think we have this sense. There's interesting and sad data in the beginning of science without borders, we used two or three because the students didn't have the ability in another language. So -- and then we started to diminish the criterion and the students go and don't make the post of the problem. So it's still an issue in Brazil. I would like to like a spark here in the beginning from what Dustin said also. I have played with language -- automation of language process back in the '90s, the last century, by the when, when I was a computer science student. Now I'm a language and tools mechanisms. From what I have seen and then from the trends and for what is on the go, I have the impression that multilingualism as such tends to be in the near future less of a deal. I know it's kind of a controversial argument maybe because of that I should make it but also I recognize from start that number one, it's not going to solve the problems we have today. Number two, there is multiculturalism embedded in multilingualism, and number three, the tools that are here and on the go are not going to be readily accessible or available to everyone. So that's why our dialogue still remains very important here. We are looking for solutions for today. We are looking for solution that meets multicultural needs and we are also looking for solutions that are widely available to everyone. That's why the challenges remain. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you. >> So I will speak as a Brazilian and international employee. First as a Brazilian. Thank you, Olga for complimenting our Spanish. We try hard. We thank you for that. You have been kind. Actually, well, I was kind of lucky because my mom is an English teacher. So I had a chance of learning from a very young age. And in the case of Spanish, I was passionate about literature. It's true as the other panelists have mentioned in the region, English in our country, in our Brazil, English teaching and Spanish teaching and other languages are still challenged. Public schools and even in private schools, it's still hard. We still have to improve our methodology. Brazil, we are 200 million people and we do have a lot of resources. We produce material for us, and -- but there are times, of sometimes exporting this if you can only write in Portuguese and also writing from outside. Although we produce a lot of good things and we produce a lot of good research and material, sometimes it may be challenged if we have the English barrier. Well, Portuguese is an official language and unfortunately in the cybersecurity program, you see or notice that most of our reports is all published in English and Spanish. We don't see our reports published in Portuguese or in French. And the answer for this question, is lack of resources. It's very difficult to translate it, not only OES, but I think entire international organizations are facing financial challenge and that's unfortunate, because we cannot produce documents. I would love to translate our reports but I'm just one person. I cannot do this by myself. And we are actually open volunteers who are to go translate these documents to other languages, especially French and Portuguese. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you very much. And then I will come back to the Portuguese issue, after we have some other comments from colleagues. I will change again a little bit the order, now that we are talking about other languages. I will -- I would like to comment from Edmond, from Asia region, and maybe after Edmond, if we can have Nadira on remote. She speaks Arabic and English. So it's not only other language. It's other script. And other totally different culture. How do you find this content in other scripts and other languages? Is there a demand for this Internet Governance content in your region, in your languages? How easy it is to handle other scripts? I know there are efforts made by ICANN and by other organizations in including IDNs, but is it challenging? How -- I know that you are doing a lot of work with.Asia and I have to recognize that Edmond has been one of the first in this environment bringing young people to this meeting. I remember several IGFs ago that you brought the first group of young students in Egypt and that was remarkable. I commend you for that. Now everyone wants young people here, which is fantastic but he was a pioneer in that. So thank you very much for that. And Edmond, your comments, please. >> EDMOND CHUNG: Thank you, Olga. And I think you kind of framed it in a way that I really want to talk about, because it's not just about language. It's also about the culture and the different age groups as well. So just starting off with one of the things that you mentioned about internationalization of some of the aspect and one of which is the internationalized domain names and we have been creating different materials for it and it's very pertinent -- it's very important that the language -- I mean, the materials is in the language that matters and relevant, because when you talk about multilingual domain names, well, then, English speaking community doesn't really need them. It's the Chinese speaking, the Arabic speaking. Those who are not speaking English that really need them. And what is interesting that we have found, especially from the work in UASG, and here, I use the acronym, it really means a universal acceptance steering group but even with the word, you probably don't know what it means. It brings me to another point I want to make is that sometimes acronym seems to -- or technical speak or jargon seems to create a barrier but sometimes across language, it helps to make us a little bit more precise on some of the things that we want to say. Because our experience, especially with UASG, we understand that it's not just about translation, but about interpretation. Because some of the terminology, some of the technical or the social terminologies are -- have subtle difference between languages, and if you just translate it directly, you lose the -- you lose a very important subtleties of it. And I think that's one of the learning that's important. You mentioned about a youth program and absolutely, when we produce materials for university students, for example, versus for secondary school students, we actually use slightly different materials, and it's not just about language. Of course, speaking in the local language is very important. We do in Hong Kong and we do in Chinese, when we were trying to work with the Japanese and Korean students, we try to make it -- make those materials into Japanese and Korean respectively, but it's also about the -- the materials themselves. If we are targeting university students, versus targeting secondary school students, versus primary school students which we are doing with the tiger and Algi Torah program, we are using slightly different terminology and also the use of diagrams, the use of graphics, the use of imagery is different and that's very important, I think for Internet governance when we talk about it, because it's more important that people understand the issues and then they can provide their opinions. Just like, for example, mass surveillance, when we talk -- when I talk to people about mass surveillance in a corporate or professional area, I show a picture of dragnet with all the fishes in it and they understand what it means by kind of dragnet surveillance or mass surveillance. But show this to a primary school student, that doesn't mean anything. What I show is a policemen standing in their bedroom. Now they understand. So it's not just about language. Sometimes it's also about the different terminology, the different graphics that we use, and this is very important, I think, in terms of creating materials and creating content to support Internet Governance. >> OLGA CAVALLI: So I think it's very interesting what you are saying. It's not only the content. It's how you communicate the content and who are you targeting the content. So if we want to really get the attention of a young or a child, perhaps a nice graphic or that precise message with the image of policemen in the bedroom is very, very, very relevant. Thank you for that. Do we have Nadira on remote? >> NADIRA ALARAJ: Hello. Hi. You had hear we? >> OLGA CAVALLI: Yes, Nadira, how are you? >> NADIRA ALARAJ: Sorry. I didn't put my camera on. The problem of uploading speed. So this is another issue. >> OLGA CAVALLI: We can hear you very well. We cannot see you. It's like you are here. We can hear you very clearly in sound. >> NADIRA ALARAJ: Yeah. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you for being with us. I don't know if you were following the conversation. I know that you live in a region that is mainly speakers -- people speak Arabic, and you are also involved in ICANN and Internet Governance spaces. So maybe you can share your thoughts about the challenges of our speaking community in having relevant Internet Governance, content and how you manage that and how you communicate to your community and if you can let us know your work with the ISOC chapter in Palestine. >> NADIRA ALARAJ: Yeah, in a way, because I will focus on the topic of the workshop, and I will share what has -- what the finding or the current status and the creation of Internet Governance content for the Arabic speaking countries here. I will start to mention there is a kind of challenge, Arabic digital content is less than 30% the Internet global content, which is really kind of -- we are not contributing. I'm not mentioning the Internet Governance, but I'm talking about the general, unique content. A study was directed to Arabic speaking, what their preference about reading on the Internet, 90%, they said that we like to read in Arabic, which is kind of okay. That's expected, but it doesn't have to -- it doesn't direct us and I can't conclude that they demand Internet Governance content. But in the study by UNESCO, there's empirical evidence. I found people with mother tongue, different than what a policy language written in, or it is advantage position in today's societies, which means -- which indicates the importance of having Internet Governance content in national languages and national languages. So it's -- what the challenges on the ground, we have here in the Arab world, exactly as mentioned, it's the terminologies. The terminologies, like, they are not commonly used in the common media and that's why it's not been really -- we find content, because also what produced the content are the -- they produce the content in English, the Arab experts, they produce the content and even communicate in English. As for the current IG content that we have, in websites, we can find a lot of them, they are reporting on human right violations. And those are kind of project-based -- project-based and they are not sustainable because they are just one -- once the project ends, the whole -- the whole website kind of frozen. No update happens. Another thing also mentioned here about the trans -- the IG translated content that we have it and it's really badly written, and it's not sensitive to the local culture and it's really a big challenge too. I have also mentioned about this, an area also Olga you mentioned, that the IG content could be generated from IG-related events which is unfortunately, in my region we have many workshops, but many, many internet IG-related events but unfortunately, no -- no -- nothing would be documented. Not even videos, kind of available online. Even the Arabic IGF, we couldn't find any session recorded. That's really kind of real challenge. And finally, the -- the issue of the intellectual property right laws, we are -- they are very old and not updated to protect creative online IG publications. That's kind of scanning what we have in the region. I don't want to take more of your time and I will be contributing to the discussion maybe later. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you, Nadira. Can I ask you a clarifying question. You mentioned a 30%, that I can't get what it is about it. Can you repeat that part? >> NADIRA ALARAJ: Sorry, the 3%. The Arabic content is less than 3% than the Internet content. >> OLGA CAVALLI: 3% not 30%. I got it wrong. Can you stay with us? >> NADIRA ALARAJ: Yeah, yeah, I'm here. >> OLGA CAVALLI: We can hear you very, very well. I will turn to my ladies. Your work is related to security content. It's a very important part of the Internet Governance dialogue and content. So I would get to -- I would like to know your comments about if you think this content is really good, how do you use this content for education. Do you think it's fundamental for promoting security and based on your experience, how this can be translated into relevant Internet governance content. Does it really happen or do you think it stays this in the books or in the different conference as it doesn't go to the real places where people can consult? Who wants to start? >> Well, you touch upon a very -- a very important question, and when it comes to security, it is both at the same time tangible and intangible and I will give you two examples. For instance, if you are teaching information security, and you are talking about social engineering, at the first chance, it will sound a bit abstract. You try to understand the meaning of these two words, what it means to me as a student, I mostly teach -- I teach mostly graduates and masters. But it is abstract, unless you use -- you have a very clear competence based sort of learning goals. Unless you use, for instance, active learning, unless you use frequent class exercises, unless you use story telling. All of those sort of methodologies help to put the intangible -- the intangible in tangible concept and then, for instance, if you give examples of cases, just present on Wednesday, on extortion. So I will use a little bit of that. You -- you have Amanda, the Canadian girl that was blackmailed and sexually exploited. There was the use of mallware there. Once this is translated into a real case in which they understand the context, okay, somebody uses malware. Somebody blackmailed this person. Then it becomes quite clear for the student to understand the content and why security is so important. If you start with definitions, then it's not only abstract and intangible but -- then you go down to the language. Then you go down to the cultural aspects. I always use cases. I never teach any Internet Governance or cybersecurity or privacy, which are all interchangeable and interrelated without touching upon cases and real cases and actual cases as well. So that's one approach. So I will give the microphone to my comments. >> OLGA CAVALLI: I think your message agrees with what Claudio was saying. Barbara, please. >> I work at an international organization. A regional international organization and it is interesting, I have the opportunity in my work to -- to prepare, to work on documents that provide a comprehensive understanding of cybersecurity across the entire region and actually, this is -- it's important to know about the inter-American system. Back in 2004, it was approved by the OES, the comprehensive inter-American system strategy, and it's important to create a cybersecurity culture and how important is education. So that's why it's so important in our program for us to try to have access to information that will provide a regional understanding, what are the main challenges? What are the needs? What are the opportunities available? And when we prepared these documents, we always tried to adopt a comprehensive approach. It says we are not going to be producing documents for one specific audience. We are going to produce documents for the entire region. It will be for policymakers, for the technical community, for legal professionals, and even Internet users, researchers, students. And when we prepare this, we make sure that it will be cybersecurity in a comprehensive way, including different information. As an example, recently in March of this year, we have launched the cybersecurityobservatory.com. And you can have access to each -- the 32 countries of Latin America and the Caribbean of cybersecurity profile which basically includes, what is the security level in terms of policy and strategy, culture and society, education, legal frameworks and technologies. So it is really interesting that we have this chance of preparing the documents and when we prepare them, we have also -- we need to work with different stakeholders. It's the intense work of trying to reach government, even within government, it's what are the departments and the agencies involved? Then we need to reach civil society, think tanks. How is the situation of the culture? How is the culture of fundamental values? We have also to reach the technical community to understand how is the technology part of it? How is the critical infrastructure protection? So it's observatory took two years to develop and now we can work on updating this data because this is from 2015. So it's intense work and then I'm glad to say that I can actually use this resources when I go to countries because part of our works is also helping countries develop cybersecurity national cybersecurity policies and we try to promote the comprehensive views. Not only when you have the -- it's not only talking about digital and trying to get access and get evidence and how to investigate it. We show the cybersecurity umbrella and all the other aspects that involves this. We want to make sure that any policy that is developed is balanced. It's not violating any compromise, any fundamental value. It is not development concerns. It's not ignoring development, innovation and it's not leading to Internet for an implementation leader. I would like to say that we try. That's one of the them we try to promote the cybersecurityobservatory.com. >> OLGA CAVALLI: I thank you for all the work you do. And you have a very experienced team to -- for remote participation and streaming, audio, and video. How many languages does the Organization of American States handles when they organize these events or produce content? >> RENATA AQUINO RIBEIRO: So as I mentioned we have four official languages. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Oh, sorry. >> RENATA AQUINO RIBEIRO: So basiccallally, English, Portuguese, Spanish and French. But due to lack of resources we are limited to Spanish and English. And if you have events in Brazil, then we have Portuguese and provide translation but it's complicated. It usually focuses on those two languages. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Translation is always a challenge for any budget. Cynthia, you are a lawyer. All of my friends I'm a lawyer, and I apologize. I'm an engineer and I don't apologize for that. Engineers also do mistakes, don't worry. It's a joke. You are an expert in cybersecurity and you are a lawyer, but I see that you produce a lot of your -- you are involved and produce papers with some -- with academic level. How do you see this content being impacting the Internet Governance dialogue from your perspective and your experience? >> CYNTHIA SOLIS: Yeah, well, actually, we are working on the education platforms and the materials for all kind of people. And that's not easy because we -- we need to reach all the people, children, parents, all kind of people because the cybersecurity and it's a very important meaning for us. So we need to work also even in the same language, we must adapt the meanings for the people. For example, nowadays we can find really good content in Spanish, but the Spanish of Spain. So that doesn't mean anything maybe for Mexican people. So this is a really good challenge. Also in the same language, we have, for example, in Argentina, we can -- the Mexican, we can say some words because -- but, yes, the language and also the different meanings of the words in the different countries are really, really important for us. So we are working in order to let the legal terms and try to adapt in the comprehensive language for every one of us. So, for example, we have really good experience because we need to teach engineers. So you are really smart and I prefer you as students than lawyers. Because you are really, really smart, but as lawyers, we need to explain some boring concepts, but that's really being really important. So I think this is a really good challenge. Both we really loved our work. So maybe in the future one or two years, we will have a really good material for everyone. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you. And before I give the floor to Caterine, I want to share with you an anecdote. When I arrived, I wanted to know what (Speaking Spanish) is. I speak Spanish. It's my mother tongue and I was talking to a Mexican colleague, and I said, can you explain to what what it is. (Speaking Spanish). Can you explain. And we went through like seven words that I couldn't understand, and we were speaking the same language. So your comment about terminology of different regions and countries is relevant. Yes. >> I have some reaction to your comments. I think Internet Governance is, per se, interdisciplinary, if not to say, multidisciplinary, meaning we are working at least in all the universities and programs I'm teaching in an interdisciplinary group. We never have only lawyers or only engineers. And I think that's definitely gives an added value to any course. And you need to start that as a foundation for any course related to Internet Governance. If you see -- if you sit once again from only one carrier, you are sort of limiting the opportunities for them to afterwards also get, for instance, not only comprehension but any job opportunity related to the courses they are taking. So in my own experience, I'm teaching for a decade now. I have seen very effective results when I teach in interdisciplinary group, rather than to one specific expertise. And you can see the examples that come from their own students are kind of also sharing the knowledge but also exchanging points of view. So then the professor, the teacher is only the sort of mediator to, you know, sort of make the bridges between an engineer for an IT or a governance person or a lawyer. So you become the median, but they have the tools. They have already the foundations on the knowledge. So I absolutely advise for anybody here who is working in designing courses to reach a diverse and interdisciplinary group to have always this in mind. Besides a language, besides a content and besides a multicultural aspects, it has to be an interdisciplinary because we see all the cases we are handling in the real scenarios do need an interdisciplinary team and also we do have -- I mean in most of the courses I teach, I always have projects so they are very hands on. And once again, I -- I think the departure from the cases from the projects gives a lot of practical knowledge to students and grasp the practical aspects and the challenges that are related to Internet Governance. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you for that. And before giving the floor to you, I think Edmond made a very interesting comment and I agree with you about acronyms. Acronyms oh, now I don't hate acronyms. I think they are good to name a precise concept. And it's part of the -- of the language of this space and very useful. I find them useful and it's good to know that. So we have prepared a list of acronyms. Of course there are many. But I would not be against using acronyms and on the contrary, I think it helps bringing a base content, concept to really address specific ideas. Regnata, you want to add something? >> RENATA AQUINO RIBEIRO: I to share something. Nowadays, it's currently open a survey that we are conducting to try to understand what is economic impact of cyber instance in the country. And I want to share how we developed this instrument to try to gather this information. So it's very important to talk about education and preparing material and to have the understanding of how it is, the situation of the country and the region. And two interesting things. One was that there was one specific session when we were developing the methodology that basically was to discuss how do we make an instrument sound Colombian. Because we have Spanish speakers there, it has to be a specific way that it would be easy for organizations in country to understand. And plus, we have to consider that this instrument would be available -- we need to get -- we need to have -- get access to information several types of organizations. So also work to find a plain language that could -- our organizations understand us. And second when we are developing this, we work with people who have economic background, and statistical background and cybersecurity everyone, policymakers because they will be the one using this data to formulate better policies. It's what I a multidisciplinary group and work and developing this. And it's important for every project and information to try to understand how is the current situation, we have to go through this process and fine the right language will be construed easily by the target audience and also that we can use it by different group leaders. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you very much. For giving floors to the colleague in the audience that are waving and want to make the comments. I would like to give the floor to Dustin and Jackie. They are the head of an interesting project which is ICANNWiki which has thousands of articles in English, but they are moving towards including other languages. So dominions, Latin America is helping with content, and other colleagues from Latin America and Spain are adding Spanish content. Also, I think, Edmond is cooperating with Chinese content and Swahili and Portuguese and so it's growing steadily into other -- into other languages and cultures. So how do you see the demand for the -- do you have any -- any inside information about if people is requesting or is consulting, perhaps other languages more than English or how many people request -- I don't know if you can share some comments about how you see this opening the diversity in your website as a new stage and growing. >> DUSIN PHILLIPS: Yes, so in terms of the demand, when we go to ICANN meetings and hold edit-a-thons and reach out to people who speak different languages, there's often enthusiasm and a lot of people want to see content in their language, not only for themselves because they are at a meeting and learning about all of these interesting concepts and they want to take it home and teach their communities about it in a language that they understand. And we have a lot of inquiries about this, but we have run into the problem, we have done well in Spanish and Chinese and Swahili, and we're just launching Portuguese. Those are all very widely spoken languages. What about these local languages? There's still a demand for it, but it's hard to get the -- a sustainable model in place to translate all of the languages that are out there. And we have used -- we have taken a number of different approaches throughout the years, and it started off as basically an extension of our site that allowed people to translate content directly. We moved on from that and created standalone sites in different languages because we found that it wasn't necessarily effective to make them directly translate the existing English content. The new system allows them to build it in a way that's relevant to them, and I think the best example of that is the work that we have done in East Africa, in Kenya and Tanzania mostly in translating Swahili. What we have done is basically fund one to two-day workshop where we try to build some capacity. They learn about the content and the issues that are relevant to them, and then at the end we host an edit-a-thon and say you are from this region. Tell us what's relevant to you, and build the articles on that, because that is going to be more effective than us saying we have all of these great articles. Why don't you directly translate it, and it goes back to what Edmond was saying about it's not just about the translation. It's about the interpretation of that, and the framing of it in a relevant way. If they are able to create an independent article on these issues, rather than directly translating it, then it will be a more effective message, I believe. And, you know, we had a number of different -- I think it -- it's been a good experience because the articles that they wrote about weren't what I expected to see. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Okay. >> DUSIN PHILLIPS: They were writing about What's app and Facebook. So they -- you know, I would have said, write about ICANN. Write about ALAC. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Why should I care? >> DUSIN PHILLIPS: You need to show why the Internet matters to them. And the governance. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you. Do you want to add something? I will go at audience. I have first Glen there and then I have some other questions to the panelists if we have the time. Glen? >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, everybody, I'm Glen McKnight, with Novello, a part of ICANN, a multistakeholder. I want to show you the way I approach content for Internet Governance. I was contacted by IEEE and I produced a fairly extensive course using Eli anatomy. It is a very good product, but my approach is curated material and I was heavily inspired by Diplo, and Diplo just released their recent book in Spanish and English last night at our book launch. And what we did is because you have probably seen me at ICANN meetings for the last number of years, I have met a number of people across the -- the ICANN space and I have done a lot of very short, very poignant videos. And so much of my content is actually augmented by visuals. So there's lots of shared video. I made them YouTube based so one could put subtitles in and it's easy to edit these, using various different tools. Don't rely on YouTube for the subtitles. You have a legal obligation, particularly in the US and I mentioned this to ICANN, you have to go and fix those subtitles. It's an obligation. But what I'm doing, and what Diplo, all of that stuff is good, and it's stuff that Olga and Santisha and others who have done the courses. You need to be a part of the community and attend the courses, like Olga does, like you will be doing Rio. As I was saying, my content was very skewed to engineers. So everyone takes a slice of the pie and my slice of the pie was focused on engineers. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you, Glen. Thank you for the propaganda. The next school of Internet Governance will be 3 to 7 April, call for application is open now. So go to our website. The forum is in three languages, Spanish, English and Portuguese and we give fellowship to all of our students and if you don't get a fellowship being you can follow all the programs online. We will have translation this three languages this time. It's you, reneta, and I have you there. Can you introduce yourself. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Sure. Good morning my name is Corine, and I work with Article 19, the human rights NGO and so we have a lot of experience working internet governance at the logical layer of the Internet. So assigning names and numbers and the engineering task force. And so something I wanted to add to the discussion when talking about good content for Internet Governance, a lot of this has already been covered, especially in diversity of languages is the fact that what we have been doing right now developing with CEMA, a guide for the Internet media and Internet Governance. We look at a community where we see that they have a direct state in Internet Governance but they are not necessarily very involved at this point in time because they don't have the resources or because they don't have the knowledge. And what we have been trying to do is actually translate all of these Internet Governance issues so that they make sense to this particular community. And I think that's a thing where a lot ground can still be gained because all the people that are here, and I think ICANNWiki is doing excellent work on this, are being engaged. We need to reach out to other people who don't naturally come to these places and we need to facilitate their participation as well. I want to see what are the best practices that they have collected. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you. I think you make an interesting point and sometimes we talk to each other here and we want to include the people from the boundaries who are interested but not included. We will go to Renata and then the lady over there. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes on the issue of experience. I was going to talk about our Portuguese language governance of the I 10 edge that has over 1,200 members on our Facebook group. And it's really interesting how that began as well, just as Dustin put and Corinne as well, from sort of an organic effort. Part members built the group. So what were we interested in? And for example, to understand ICANN, we needed to understand what is a Working Group? What is a Working Party? What is the difference between them? What are -- what are the free meetings that ICANN has. And from the school of internet governance came an interesting perspective of authorship, between members the Internet Governance, global community. So we had -- we began the group at the Brazilian school of Internet Governance with just two or three moderators and then it came more moderators and reaply in the Internet school of Internet governan which Satish said, we could bring more people to this group. And we can identify ourselves as the global community of Internet Governance which speaks Portuguese and that's fantastic. I think it's really about having this space where one takes ownership of the content. There's appropriation, instead of really just having a ready made as Nadira said, sometimes poorly written material that you don't really have any ways of identifying or learning from it. So that's the most amazing thing about content and Internet Governance in such organically grown initiatives. >> OLGA CAVALLI: We have a question or a comment there. You have a mic? There. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello, my name is Julia. I'm with the I IGF program, I'm Brazilian. It's a comment, not a question. So basically the standard is really interesting for us to really I aming. I think we need to have our presence here as Latin American youth. It's being active and empower ourselves and to be representative. In this sense, language become a barrier for us to be active and representative in these debates because speaking English becomes a filler, which we like it or not. And if you look at the youth here from Brazil, we are representing just a part of the youth in terms of society's representation. We have a couple of LGBT youth, including myself. We have two or three youth that are black, and we mostly have youths with privilege, socioeconomic background. So finally, I think we should start to put digital technologies working for us and for our empowerment, like simultaneous translation, which, for example, here in this IGF has not been a resource used properly, because yesterday and today, on this very panel, I'm seeing a person speaking Spanish and the simultaneous translation being spoken in Spanish and not the content of what the speaker was talking about. So if I'm going to speak Spanish right now. (Speaking Spanish). The translation, you guys are going to see will not translate it. You know in the sense, this is important to -- to give in the sense you guys toll here that budget becomes a barrier for translation. But at the same time, the importance given to the matter ends up reinforcing the fact that relatively compared to other costs for the event, this is not that important, you know? So cost is a relative issue. But in -- and this is not just a technical matter. This is rather a cultural problem, in my opinion, that takes the importance out of the debate's quality to have each people speaking in the internet in the way they view it, just like Renata just talked it. Language is not just about words. It's also about perspective. And in a multistakeholder model, different perspectives not only matter but are the backbone of the internet governance model itself. Thank you. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you very much and I would love that the budget would not be such a relevant issue for everything that you organize and it is. I know that they have made efforts to have translation in more rooms, but I know how challenged that is. It's not only budget, it's also space. Let me give the floor to Edmond who wants to add something. >> EDMOND CHUNG: Yes, I think that's a very good point, and -- Edmond here, sorry. One of the things that I think could, you know, even without the immediate budget increase here, is the utilization of the remote participation tools, and the reason why I bring about this is we had a discussion at another session, talking about remote participation specifically, and the text discussion can help bridge some of that barrier, and definitely, you know, machine translation for text is much more readily available than audio and this live scribe situation. And that really doesn't really require a lot more budget to create and we should encourage even, you know, people on site to actually go to the -- go to the remote participation tool and use text to communicate and write now I actually see that there's a comment there. So just a note. But this is under utilized, I think, in the IGF kind of area. We are under utilizing this remote participation tool and, in fact, language, it's not perfect, but at least the first step, we could probably have, you know, people type their original language and also show a preferred kind of translation immediately for that. Of course, machine translation is not perfect, but at least you can probably get the gist of it. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you. We have a remote comment? >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, one question. I come from Kenya. My question to the panelists, how do you do translation by parentants -- sorry. >> OLGA CAVALLI: No. No. No worries. I have no glasses. >> EDMOND CHUNG: I can read it. >> OLGA CAVALLI: I didn't bring my classes. >> EDMOND CHUNG: So the question is from Boniface Botaba from Kenya and's worked closely with us on our Swahili translation and his question is: How do you ensure the continued translation by participants without them experiencing volunteer burnout? >> OLGA CAVALLI: Yes, it's a fantastic question. Thank you Boniface for joining us. No worries. Language barrier, you see? Do we have other questions or comments from the audience. I will start with Claudio. >> EDMOND CHUNG: I can respond to Boniface. Well, Boniface, I hope that you are not getting burned out because you have been a huge part of our success in the Swahili initiative. But I think it's a matter of casting a broader net and community sourcing it so that you are not relying on one or two people to translate all the content because A, it will lead to burnout, and B, it's not sustainable, because when the one or two people that you rely on move on to the next thing, then you are kind of back to point A and you have to figure out where to go from there. So it's really about building a larger network and a larger community that all want to see the same thing happen and working on that goal together so that when one or two people take a step back, there's somebody ready to fill their shoes. And actually -- I actually wanted to address the question -- Corinne, right? That Corinne posed, and I think that a good way to reach the people that are not coming to these events is to find people that are attending these events and try to use them as ambassadors and use them to reach out into their communities and hopefully that will start to build a network effect that gets to you where you want to be. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you, Dustin. Before giving the floor Claudio, we will take another comment from our audience. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good morning, everyone. I will go back to the point mentioned by Nadira about the 3% availability of content in Arabic. So more than 3% is 1% of that content is available -- the digital content, and we -- I think in the EMEA region, it's not nonavailability of translators or the nonavailability of people wanting to translate languages. I mean, the major fundamental challenge is censorship. So a lot of people, they don't really have the chance to access the Internet and access online platforms and so they don't really have the chance to have an open and free access to the Internet to be able to translate the language. It's not only a cultural problem or a language problem, it's a technical problem. For example, we don't have a lot of ISPs. They don't see a benefit of having the content written in their own language. It's not only the linguistic but a technical and censorship factor as well. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you very much. Claudio? >> CLAUDIO LUCENA: Thank you, Olga. A couple of remarks concerning Edmond's intervention of the user machine learning and also other tools. I think this has been taken out, Ed Monday. This is a new environment. If we didn't have back then ten years it was because certainly the tools were not mature enough for that, but I'm sure that's taken note of. There are other factors than the output, but this is something that we will discuss from now on. And then also what Kathy touched on and then Glen stressed out, the necessity to speak different, not only languages themselves but technical languages, even stresses more the importance of the initiatives of Internet Governance schools. Let me pay another tribute here to Olga, as a coordinator, as an organizers school of Internet Governance. There's no we can be together. They are speaking more languages, where we speak journalism, economy, business, administration, law, engineering, computer science to name just a few. So this is really a transforming experience for the ones of you who are interested and still interested. This would be a very interesting project or program to engage in. But there's one thing that really gives us a lot of hope in this scenario is that not only we need to understand each other, we want to understand each other. Most of us here do not speak English as a native language, yet we are here, overcoming those barriers with that sad and annoying language barrier in the constraint of the budget but still we are here. I'm deeply, deeply touched by my already large and ever growing community of Spanish-speaking friends when we talk and discuss for hours and they just pretend they understand me when I'm trying to speak Spanish. Really, that's very, very, interesting. And that shows the need to understand. And then we are preparing, fine tuning things for this -- for the panel, Olga suggested that we take a look at the CPLP, the community of Portuguese language speaking countries. I have been based in Lisbon for the past two years and Brazil, the topic is called governance Internet. It turns out in Portugal, there's no important thing. Governance of the Internet is not a thing. In Portugal, we call it (speaking Portuguese) it has a different language. And it's all about languages making slight differences. But still we interact very well. I think in terms of the material that we produce, a joint effort between Brazilian and Portuguese universities, on encyclopedia of international law, and I really made the point that we should include Internet Governance related entries in the encyclopedia, and the human resources that we arrange. But if we look at the other Portuguese-speaking countries there allegation not the same interactions. For historical purposes, Portugal is closer to the language line Timor and others but not Brazil. It's inning. From Brazil we have a cooperation agreement with the government of Timor through which we receive -- we receive around 70 students at a time for our graduate and undergraduate courses in Brazil. The students come to Brazil, Portuguese is a working language in East Timor, but I wouldn't know if it is the most important language that you should speak in Timor and I don't think it opens a lot of doors if our Internet Governance material arrives there because the students come for our graduate and undergraduate courses through this cooperation agreement with East Timor, they have to spend six months in our university before they can be integrated in the graduate or undergraduate courses because they have to get used to not only as the Portuguese of the language but the jargon of the Portuguese language that they will inbound touch with. So it's -- I will leave it here and maybe make another intervention later. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Very interesting before. Giving to the floor no Nadira, I would like to receive her comments about the questions and the comments from the audience. I want to tell you an anecdote. Before starting the school of the Internet Governance this year, it was 180 fellows. So I prepared some materials and introduction in three languages and I put them in context through Google list. Immediately, there were three Working Groups one in English, one in Portuguese and one in Spanish. As you are doing in Costa Rica, it's still live. It was immediate. I tried to keep them all in the same list, but the language broke them immediately into three different groups. Other comments from the audience? No. Nadira, would you like to add something to the questions and comments from the audience that we have had to far? >> NADIRA ALARAJ: Hi. Just one point regarding to the contributor of the content. We have to have -- coming from -- I'm talking about coming from academic background. I can't really contribute something if I don't have enough knowledge about it. So that most important to prepare the people who wants to contribute to translate, to have a clear understanding about a certain issue, to be competent in it, and then to contribute to it. There's another aspect, what was mentioned about burnout. It's -- there have to be another program about some kind of incentives. Without incentives people -- they will be burned out. So there is a -- it has to be. It goes to go, competency and there's encouragement and there's acknowledgment of people doing this work. That's my point. I hope that's also people contribute and bring more people to on the certain issue of Internet Governance and not repeating and copy and paste, because there's a lot of -- I could see, and I could read whatever is in English and common and see it and read in Arabic, it's so broken. So even, like those directing the list, to develop and keep updating the terminologies. Languages are rich. It is rich, and so people also have to work on the terminologies to bring it up to the level, so everybody could hear pane understand what it's talking about, about governance, in Arabic, not everybody knows about it, even people in the government itself. When we use the word governance, they hardly know about it. They know -- they practice it but when we put this terminology on it, as describing what they are doing, they don't really -- they don't -- no match of it. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you. >> NADIRA ALARAJ: That's my point of view. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you very much. And Boniface, if you are staying there remotely participating with us, thank you for your question before. If there are no more questions or comments from the audience, we have like ten minutes and I would go again with our panelists with some general questions. Maybe you can address the ones that you prefer. Intellectual property issues. We have here some lawyers. Can we take information from other side and copy it as it is, which other things should we have in mind before taking content or references from other sources? How do you see in general -- I think that the versions are diverse about using this automatic translating tools. Are they useful? Are they okay? Should we avoid them? And about burnout, we already had some comments and how could we have the content updated? How could we avoid to have websites without information in how can we flag them or let the people know that they are not updated and about this, you can take the one that you prefer and make your final comment and then we can close. Who would like to start? >> Well, talking about intellectual property, I think one solution, it's kind of license, like -- I forgot the name the commons license, because I think you are right, the translation, it's a modification of the region. So you need certain permissions. So this kind of license, it's good solutions. But also, I think as material creators we can put that this material can be translated, because the most important thing in the Internet Governance is to share the knowledge of all the stakeholders. So I think everyone that creates the materials can put this little sentence that we get the permission to translate and modify the content in order to update the content because that's where the content change almost every day. And I think it's a good solution. So -- ocean but let me ask you something, if I don't put that, and the website is online, which is the intellectual property law that it is the one from Argentina? It's the one of the website that it -- it's hosted in the United States? It's -- how can people have -- maybe we could have a simple guide for helping people in producing content and not having problems in the future. And if I want to use the creative comments license, where should I go to get the knowledge and the know-how to do that? >> Well, the copyright law, it's based in the Berne Convention, so it's international treaty, but it depends, for example, if the contents in Argentinian law. >> OLGA CAVALLI: So say it's a dot org and it's hosted in the United States. That's a challenging question. >> Yes, for example in the Berne Convention, you can -- well, you can, for example, but this sentence because the creative comments license is made by the US law, but it could help any way. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Okay. So it's something that we have in mind when you produce cob tent and put it online to also think about the source, if it's available or not and under which license. Any comments? >> Well, in our case the Organization of American States we all report to use creative comments and we actually encourage people to use it and as much as they can, for instance, we have a cybersecurity awareness toolkit which is basically to address all the Member States, but for anyone to develop a cybersecurity awareness campaign and we encourage user material. We just produce everything to encourage and look about creative comments even when we are learning. What would be the best way to make sure that people would have access to our material? So it's an effort that we can do. >> Sorry, I forgot something. If the content is modified or used by educational proposals. Proposals, you have an exception of the law. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Okay. Claudio? Caterine and Claudio. >> CATERINE GARCIA P. VAN HOOGSTRATEN: I would like to add the importance of consulting open sources and I think for us academics writing articles awell, we are bearing that in mind when we want to reach out, you know, a good audience, a grassroots and I don't know our academic networks. So we are -- I mean, in my case, I'm writing now my articles bearing in mind that I want to have it open sourced. So therefore, issues of intellectual property will not be a problem for those would want to use my articles. I just wanted to react to Glen's questions on engagement, because she had a very important question. She mentions how engaged more people, when they are not interested, and I have been dealing with this as well. I can give you just one simple example. Whenever there are trainings that gathers different sort of people, for instance, for -- we had some -- a month ago, I was participating in a boot camp. It was a women in tech boot camp. And it was generally to show what are the successful cases and so people were presenting there and already working in some companies or working for some more governments and so on and so forth. And what we did is knowing that we already have the audience there, we brought some of our current courses, you know, some leaflets or flyers and we also engaged in conversations with them. So exactly what do you like? What makes you -- what clicks with you from, for instance, cybersecurity or from Internet Governance or privacy or whatever sort of specific content? And I think that engagement of having some of the professors in these boot camps already creates more curiosity and it also bridges this space between somebody would is an academic who is sitting in some university somewhere, and the person who might be interested to engage in these courses. So something to add to that. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you. Claudio? >> CLAUDIO LUCENA: One first comment about jurisdiction. I have think if jurisdiction over this digital matters were settled, we wouldn't have had three or four packed panels discussing jurisdiction. So we do have a problem with that. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Yes. >> CLAUDIO LUCENA: Apart from that, it's a concrete issue. Not in this very particular theme of Internet Governance. I haven't heard of an intellectual property dispute in the world concerning internet governance related material. That's for one reason, you have correctly the said, the people who are engaged in Internet Governance engage for sharing. They have this aim. But it would be a good exercise to look for an intellectual dispute concerning the Internet Governance, well, not to flag anyone because it would be a dispute of someone who has produced their own material and then we could understand it and see how it works. But then I don't think it's a problem in the particular case of the material we are speaking here. But on the unfit content, or I don't know if exactly that is what you mean. On the best contents that we have, this has become an issue recently. I acknowledge the relevant of the issue but I think -- I still think it's too late for us to flagging content on the basis on something that we don't have the material yet. And Brazil, for example, we have -- we know the courses where they are coming from. The CGI has a very good source, and Renata is here with us and is doing an amazing job in the university. Universities in this environment have the advantage -- the advantage of being -- well, a prioria, a reliable source. We are having our YouTube channels and interviews with subtitles from I. O university. The amazing job of my colleagues also join. Partly or mostly, I would say because of the fact that I they have internalized the importance of interdisciplinary, they have engineers and economists and business people, I think stressing the importance and the credibility of this these sources is a good practice. Flagging the ones which we don't think are reliable enough this is too early for that, I would say. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Okay. That's a good comment. Edmond, Dustin, your comments? >> EDMOND CHUNG: Sure. Just a quick comment on creative comments. I absolutely support it, and, in fact, there were localized versions of the license, in fact, over round 60 jurisdictions so it could be used in different places not just the US. And also, it could be internet -- there's an international kind of version for some of jurisdictions, it's not covered. So you can try to pick the right one. And definitely nor most of the materials at DOT.ASIA, some of the programs that we do, most of them are under creative commons, including IG, actually. That's the one point. And you asked a very interesting question. The machine translation, whether it's appropriate or not, in certain situations. And I was sitting back here thinking about it. Well, it's probably not useful when you have a heated debate, you know, people are very heated and things get lost in the translation, well, instigate problems but here, I think in a very calm situation, I think, you know, calm discussion of issues, should be -- should be very useful, because most of the time you need -- you can get the gist of what people are talking about, and more importantly, you can express yourself in your own language, and that I think is more important than absolute, you know, accuracy in terms of the translation. So, yeah, I was thinking, you know, if we are expecting a heated debate, that's probably not a good idea, because it will instigate more problems. >> OLGA CAVALLI: I see. That's a good point. Dustin? >> DUSTIN PHILLIPS: I think in terms of keeping the translated content updated and relevant to reflect the most current state of things, I think creative comments is definitely the answer, which it's in the form that we use, with media wiki that allows anyone to come in and update it, in realtime, or whether it's putting out your own article and allowing others to build on that, so if you have started a project, and you no longer have time for, it that information is not lost. Somebody can take it and build on it and it -- you know, standing on the shoulders of giants, if you will. Just building on past works so that we don't have to start at point A every time. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Okay. Any other final comment. >> EDMOND CHUNG: Just a quick note on that. Creative comments, those on panels is very portative. What is interesting in UASG, when we are working on the IDN and some of the materials, it's interesting to receive advice from, for example, ICANN legal and asking why would you use, you know, creative comments because we want to share it. Yes, we write you something so you can -- everyone can share. But the point about, you know, creative comments is it's a common base. Everyone can understand, you know, with a few icons whether they can do, rather than reengineer a thing. A lot of times, corporate legal may not necessarily completely grasp that idea. So that's one challenge, I think, that we need to think about too. >> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you very much. Any final comment from any panelist, audience? Okay. Thank you very much. I think we had a very, very interesting session, and I thank you, Nadira for weekend us in Palestine, and thank you Boniface for being with us from Kenya. And please, an applause to our lovely panelists. (Applause). Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you have. See you all around today. And if I don't see you, have a good flight home and a good trip back home. (end of session 10:28 a.m.central time). RAW FILE INTERNET GOVERNANCE FORUM 2016 ENABLING INCLUSIVE AND SUSTAINABLE GROWTH JALISCO, MEXICO 9 DECEMBER 2016 WS240: BUILDING TRUST AND CONFIDENCE: IMPLEMENT INTERNET STANDARDS 10:45 Services Provided By: Caption First, Inc. P.O. Box 3066 Monument, CO 80132 1 877 825 5234 +001 719 481 9835 www.captionfirst.com *** This text is being provided in a rough draft Format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) or captioning are provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. *** (WS240: Building Trust and Confidence: Implement Internet Standard.) >> We're just waiting for the live stream to get up. Good morning, everybody. Good morning, welcome to this workshop on trust and confidence implementing Internet standards. Hopefully in the next 90 minutes, we will manage to discuss some of the key issues and you have all been given a handout, which may give you a sign that we will actually try to get really into the discussion and get your inputs as much as possible. I will talk about that in a minute. If we can get the slides up. As I said, the building trust and confidence: Implement Internet standards is the title. Mar mar my name is Bart Hogeveen, and I'm with the Clingdal which is maybe a bit of an odd actor here at the IGF. I'm working as a training and research fellow, which means I'm not an Internet expert. I'm not a researcher. I'm merely a trainer and involved in training and capacity building programs which will be the topic of today, which may also explain a little bit of the approach that we take to this workshop. What we are working on, we have actually only a very international focus. So we are only dealing with issues that have an international -- an international dimension. Creating awareness and mutual understanding and as I have been witnessing over the last couple of days at the IGF which is my first, there is a lot of need for mutual understanding as to what is each other's, between countries and between cultures and I think we are also trying to tackle. Training and capacity building is the focus of today's workshop, as well as reaching out across the different stakeholders represented here. What I will do, a little of the outline for this workshop. I will give a few -- some words about the background to this workshop. Why have we proposed this workshop and an introduction to the implementation of Internet standards and why we think this is an important topic and then I will give the floor to Olaf Kolkman who will give a short presentation and then we will break up into three groups and we will ask you for your experiences, especially related to implementation processes. More details about that will come later and which are also reflected in the ahandout, which you can find on pages 4 and 5. Then after the breakout sessions, we would like each group to present their findings and conclusions to the plenary, and that will also be reacted on by the speakers and maybe by representatives from the other groups. And that in the end should give us quite a nice overview of the key elements that were discussed during this workshop. We are running this workshop and the topic of this -- of this workshop under the global forum of cyber expertise. You will undoubtedly have seen that the initiative being mentioned, before but I would refer to the GSCE magazine. GSCE is bringing expertise together in relation to cyber capacity building. With the ultimate aim of ensuring that the Internet will remain open too operable, secure and reliable. Well, that's a name we are all striving for, right? And one of the initiatives under the global forum and cyber expertise, the Internet infrastructure initiative, and that's the basis for this workshop. It builds transparent and resilient Internet infrastructure and it's based on the experience that we have had in the Netherlands related to testing and monitoring compliance with open Internet standards and why are we doing this? I think the key message here in this workshop is how do we build and how do we maintain trust and confidence in the net, not just by those who are here at the forum, or at the -- at the core um, but actually everybody who is using the Internet, from private citizens to companies. So what is the aim of this workshop in the three aims, I would like to work with you to identify good practices in speeding up the implementation of Internet standards. I would like to see whether we can identify certain areas where there's a need for additional capacity building, and finally, I would like to invite those who are interested, either personally or from your organization or for your country to work together on this initiative if you feel that there's a need or whether you have something to offer. So it's kind of an open invitation. So what are the issues related to Internet, to open Internet standards this it's not the lack of standards. I think that maybe it's an open door for you here, but I think in general, it's good to mention. It's not the lack of Internet standards at all. It's mainly the implementation process and hence, our interest to also discuss with you what are good practices and implementation processes, rather than the -- the -- let's see the substance of the Internet standards. What do we see? We see different implementation approaches in different countries depending on your pass maturity and despending on the societal culture and depending on the development that you have gone through in the past. We have seen debates about what is -- which standards have priorities over others. You need to prioritized and which standards are more essential than the other. What is the role of the government? Can the government provide incentives? Or can they create a kind of norm for others to adhere to? It also has to do with the maturity of your public/private corporation in your country or in the environment that you are working in. Has it been -- been common or for a very long time for the private sector to work together with the public sector or have these been siloed? And finally, achieving synergy between various global initiatives. That's one of the questions, what the initiatives already there and. Who are working already very much on the implementation of open Internet standards so how can we reinforce and multiply those efforts? I think that's one of the issues that we are trying to tackle. I mentioned before that it builds on the experience in the Netherlands and in the Netherlands in 2015, the Internet standards platform was established. Bringing actually together the public sector and the known commercial private sector, the meeting, let's say, once a month, to discuss what's the practice of implementation within the boundaries of, in this case, the Netherlands. And a practice by what I would call the public and the commercial service providers. So the airline, is your airline company, when you are booking online is that company complying with the Internet standards which allows you to have trust and confidence in the system? The platform also establishes a dialogue of reaching out to those companies or business sectors which they feel need to do an extra push in order to comply with the standards. And there's also the beginning of an international outreach. We have worked with the government of Poland and to also, let's say, support them in their wish to establish manage alike this platform. And finally, this platform, developing a testing tool which I would like to show which is called www.Internet.nl which is available in Dutch, English and Polish, and we would hike to hear your comments as well on that, to explain the language range of this platform. What is this testing tool? You can find it here. You can even go now, when you are going to the laptop and test whether -- you can test three things. One, is this Internet connection that you are using actually compliant with the modern Internet standards? Is the website you are trying to work from or work to or whether you want to, let's say, sell somebody from a web shop, you can test whether it's compliant and you can test whether your email is compliant. And then it will give you a test score. And complying with what this complying with, at this platform, identified the six most important Internet standards at this very moment. I will not go into detail with them, bust you see them listed here, IPv6, DNSSEC, TL S., DKIM, SPF and DMARC. These are the platforms that are most critical to say that you have a secure and trustworthy Internet. So the mat forms. Then the approach to that is not to shame and blame. That's -- that must be very are obvious, it's not a means to show something as bad. It's merely to say please explain -- please apply these standards and if you do not, that could be fine, but then explain why you do not implement these standards. So the so- called apply or explain approach has been used for that. And you can see a hall of fame. So these are the 100% scores of, as you can now see mainly Dutch websites which gives you a authority as a commercial company to say, well, I have a 100% score and I'm trustworthy as a web shop or a government website. Now we tested this against the GFC website which is 100 score. That's not a purpose. But you also see in the bottom box, the conditions in which it received the 100% score. It's not very readable the this moment. We tested the website of my organization, which received a 78% score. And you may be surprised that we also tested the website of the Internet Governance Forum which reached a 34% score. So what does that mean? It does not mean that the website is insecure or not good or vulnerable. It mainly says that the website or the systems, that they are complying with those six Internet standards and we would be curious to know why is that? Is this any need for support? Maybe this platform or our technical experts can apply in getting to a 100% score. So what's the ultimate aim? To develop and implement I capacity building program that may increase the awareness and supports the implementation of openings and standards. So what are we looking for and it will be a program for the next two to three years, is really a capacity building program, in terms of bringing people together and bringing experts to go and trying to raise awareness with those actors who feel they have a need for them. What is the target audience? Mainly those stakeholders who have a political agenda setting authority, regulators or policy and norm setting authorities and these can be public sector. These can be just as much private sector. Just to give you a few examples which we would be very interested -- which we are exploring right now. You have may have heard that gmail has been implementing the DMARC open standards over the summertime which is something which takes quite an effort to implement, and -- but also must be a business case behind. That. Why has a commercial company decided to do that, even whether there might not be immediate results from that. You I have heard "The Guardian" which moved to HTTPS, and they explained on the website which is very interesting to read, why they did that. Not because they -- the newspaper felt, vulnerable, but mainly that their readers might be -- might be checked or might be -- that the pages being read might be traced by those who have bad intensions and so that's why they moved to HTTPS, mainly to protect their customers. And you know "The Guardian" was one of the exposures of the Snowden files. And one which is relatively new is the Hong Kong Monetary Authority which started a new initiative, the fortification initiative, where they forced all of those parties who were working with them to comply to certain Internet standards, including DNSSEC. So we have some very practical examples and we would like to know more about that because we cannot imagine that prior to the example in the Netherlands, nor those are the only ones, nor that we can bring this up to a somewhat higher level and come to some good practices which we can actively bring out to the world. So in order to draw good practices that may be more widely applicable, research the actors and secure the Internet. That's the aim of that initiative. Having set that, giving you an idea of where we are hosting this workshop and what we will be expecting from you in a minute, I hand the floor to Olaf -- Olaf is the chief technology with ISOC, I think very well known over here. And I have asked him to do a short keynote to the open Internet standards. >> OLAF KOLKMAN: Yes. If you could change the slide deck and then give me that little thingy here. So I have been busy in the deployment of open Internet standards for, I think over a decade. I have always been very interested in how to get the Internet -- keep the Internet open, scalable and secure, and with scalable and open, the sort of IPv6 comes to mind and with secure, the secure of the DNSSEC and the routing comes to mine. This is not academic work. This is just a fuel thoughts and reflections on what are the mechanisms by which these open standards, which are not mandated standards, which are not set by government, and which are in essence -- and that's the property of the open Internet, voluntary standards. How does that work? How do these innovations get into the market? So when we -- oh. This doesn't work. (Computer beeping). Do I need to turn around. Technology. Technology. So when you sort of Google for innovation, then you end up very quickly at the standard work by Everett rogers, "Diffusion of Innovation." He says that there are five stages of the adoption of innovation, be it an Internet standard, be it a new television set or new detergent for your laundry. So first knowledge, and so first the person adopting the innovation needs to know about the innovation. Then they need to pursue -- persuade themselves that, you know this is actually a good thing. So they read the manual or they do some research, when you buy a new computer, you will do some research, for example. They dot decision and then you start using the new innovation and at some point, you get confirmation that this new innovation is a good thing. It might not be a very conscious decision but this is basically what everybody goes through as they do a new info vague. So knowledge. Knowledge spreads to various ways and the decision making that comes with knowledge, once you have the knowledge, is also a little bit based on your environment. You can have, let me see, notes, you can have authoritative -- authority-based innovation decisions where somebody central says you will have to do this. That's the ITU model, I would say. The collective innovation decision is when a society collectively says this is a good thing, and they basically pick up an innovation. And then the optional decision model is when individuals within the society or within the group in the societies -- the societal structure need to make the decisions for the innovation themselves. And I believe that is the case for the internet. If these enterprises deploy, IPv6, they make that decision on their own if -- if they deploy IPv6, they make that decision on their own. They do not do that collectively. So what does an individual go through when they try to make the decision? They look at the innovation and they say, does this innovation have a relative advantage? Am I better off after I implement the innovation than I was before? In implementing this innovation, is it complex or simple, or is it simple? Do I need to do something different with my washing detergent or do I have to, you know, stay home a little longer or something? Is it compatible with what I do before? If I buy a new television, I really would like to see it sit in the cupboard that my old television sits in, otherwise it's not compatible with my environment. Can I try it? Can I actually try the innovation? That's why people go to the Mac store and press the keys, to see if the shift bar, and triability is important. Can I actually see that the innovation has happened? Can I actually tell? Can other people see that I took up the innovation? Is my laundry more clean or can I -- or does it smell better? Now, the relative advantage in the Internet depends a lot on the network effects. This is Metcalfy's law for those who -- it's the formula, that describes the value of a network with respect to its size. And in a lot of innovations on the Internet, that's exactly what happens. This is why we all join Facebook, because that's where the value is. There are many people who use the same social network. Going to another social network doesn't really help you because your friends are not there. If you look at the deployment of new standards, like IPv6 and like the second zone, it's not always aware that the network effect is there. It's not there. It is there are for IPv4. So this is something that's all in the way when you talk about these Internet standards. Now talking about Internet standards, the network effect is sort of easy at the top with the applications I gave the Facebook example, and the network and the other effects of observability and try- ability and relative advantage are obvious on the network layer. So the Internet is a network of network where network operators make the decisions about implementing the standards by which they shift packets all over the networks. And if they implement a cheaper router infrastructure, they have an immediate benefit. That's how it works. The application level, the innovations are made essentially by the buyers of that infrastructure, and, you know, innovation is a driver as well, but that interconnection layer, that is where things become very difficult. The shift from IP to IPv6 is a perfect example because both applications and the networks need to apply that. It makes it all very difficult, and -- oh. Going one too fast, I believe. I believe that type of problem is -- is important with the transition to the IPv6 to the DNSSEC, and routing security. So then the question is. What can you do to -- to -- to do this? And for all of these technologies there,'s no immediate relative advantage. You have to make an investment in deploying IPv6. It doesn't bring you more customers, for instance. It's actually pretty complex. The compatible for IPv6 is -- is troublesome for DNSSEC, it's an add on, but still, the complexity is fairly high. And then the try-ability might be hard. If you turn on the DNSSEC, you may not immediately see that it actually works. The Internet is a nice site to do a viability. People can deploy this in their test network or the test setup and they can -- try if their innovation actually worked and that talks to the observability. And, again with the -- the technologies that we deploy at the core of the Internet, that's plumbing. Most people don't see plumbing. If we change our -- our plumbing in our house, nobody will see that. If you change your kitchen or your bathroom, everybody will walk into your room if awe and say, oh, yes, this is a very nice bathroom, but they won't say that about your lead plumbing. So what is the -- what's the magic? What are the dials that we can turn to raise that -- that little pointer there on the deployment panel? If this magic box would access, I would buy it. So I think there are two things that we can do. As a group, if we can convince, as a group or for the group that needs to deploy the innovation, that there's a credible network effect, we might win. We would have to identify the attractors what makes this attractive? What is the reason to do this? Sharing a sense of direction and vision, saying collectively this is where we go actually helps with people getting along, because they know that if they bet on this thing, they -- they might actually come in together and reducing costs obviously is something that -- that -- that helps as well. For the individuals that have to make the choice of the adoption, reducing complexity of the technology, so bringing good tools, increase the relative advantage, if you can do that, and maintain compatibility, very important. So make sure it works with previous tools. This is a problem, people. If we deploy IPv6 in our networks it doesn't necessarily interoperate with our security environment, for instance. Enable try-ability and make the thing observability. So these are just a few tools that you can do for the group, you know, regulations, subsidy, market creation, that all speaks to this -- to this in the future. Standardization is also something that there's a buy-in, around this. This is the thing that we are going to do. The availability in products and make sure that it's there. And I think that reducing costs by offering open source actually helps. In two ways, it's not only lowering costs for the people who buy the products but it's lowering the costs for other people who want to innovate and bring that technology. So for developers that build libraries that can be used by areas is an example of that. For the individual, reduced complexity, those things, again, good tools, reduce the cost and make sure that documentation is available and that's sharing best practices of testing sites and make sure there's a relative advantage given the add, try to do that as minimum steps so that things remain simple. So these are a few faults the mechanisms that we can use to -- to get awareness tools and -- and have some approaches to get better -- better deployment of these type standards. So I hope with this we have a little bit of a -- of a feel of the issues without going to the technical details around these standards, but they all suffer in some way or another around these issues of observability, triability and complexity and simplicity. With, that I will now hand back to you. >> BARTS HOGEVEEN: Thanks, Olaf, for providing a framework to think about implementation of standards like these. So now that we have endoused the aim of the workshop, the -- the inspiring ground for where this workshop came from, this platform, and this Internet.nl testing tool and the framework that Olaf provided. So what do we want to do next? Three breakout sessions. We have nicely split this room in three segments. So what I would like to do is in a minute, for each of to you actually come down more or less, for a group here, a group over here and a group over there, which will be facilitated by Olaf and two colleagues, Paul Wilson, and director of APNIC, and Bastiaan Goslings with the Amsterdam Internet exchange. They will help you through the process. What are we trying to -- what are we asking you? First, what's the problem? The problem is we have a set of modern Internet standards, for scalable and secure users of Internet. We talked about that. It's also written on the earlier handouts and the main question that we have is how do we provide the right preconditions and consensus for organizations, companies and others to implement these standards. Our key question is about how do we get, people organizations to implementation? And for that, we have identified five questions which we will post for you. One is what are and where are good practices and implementation of these standers, according to your experience or your thinking or your point of view? What can be good preconditions for implementation, I think Olaf came from a more theoretical framework where they provided some ideas for that. Whether the good preconditions for effective implementation, in which geographical areas is there a need to do more investments in either awareness raising or capacity building? Or with which stakeholders should we invest more in terms of awareness raising and capacity building skills? And finally, what other initiatives that you are aware of, that may have similarities, and can contribute to the overall departmentedness of our initiative that we can reach out for and find support for. So these are the five questions. Are there any questions at this stage? Is it clear what we want to do? Yeah? So may I ask everybody who is on the -- for you on the left side of this line, to move to that area, yeah? For everybody sitting over here to move over here, Paul will facilitate this one. Olaf, can you go to the right side? And the others can they come to this part, and Bastiaan, can you help them here? We take 25 minutes to help answer these five questions. Then afterwards, I would like to have one from the group present the findings. Very shortly and very briefly and I will take note of that. (Group discussion). >> BARTS HOGEVEEN: All right. Shall we finish the group discussion. Thank you so much for your efforts. What I would like to -- what I would like to do is invite the three reps or probably the three facilitators to -- to run through the discussions that have taken place and see what kind of lessons or ideas we can get from that. In the meantime, I will take down the notes on the sheets based on the five questions that serve as a little bit of a guidance. Would would like to start? Paul? Sure. >> PAUL WILSON: Should I stand up here? I have a few notes. Thanks. Thanks very much. My name is Paul. I was assisting the group on the left -- the stage left here. I started taking notes when we started answering the questions themselves, but we had an interesting discussion at the start about really high level of diversity in the group, in terms of people's sort of involvement in standards. I initially asked who was involved in implementing standards, I don't know if everyone was too shy but no one volunteered that they were. I think at least half the people of the group were involved and directly involved in standard implications in their different places in interest net, in the PIR registry, and in the Dutch government. Yeah, it was an interesting kickoff, just talking about what people's involvements were. I'm just trying to find my note here. The good practices in implementing open standards, I guess we were talking mostly about incentives. There was -- I think there seemed to be a common view that a stick approach or a regulatory requirement approach was not going to be very useful, particularly in -- depending on the culture or the circumstance, but -- but governments regulating and forcing companies or trying to force companies, for instance, or communities to -- to implement, to take what could be costly measures. That's likely to be fought and/or resented to the people subject to those requirements and there was a strong sense that a multistakeholdery stakeholder approach was the thing to do, so that the people who were being subject to the potential for regulation would -- would actually be involved in the beginning and the idea would be to ensure that -- or to avoid regulating completely. A bit of talk of certification, that in the building and the food industries, people use badges to say I have been certified or inspected and that could be useful. There's a question there about how much -- to what extent users would actually be aware of the meaning of certification and things like this, this rather opaque technical standards and there was a need for understanding of that, but also in another part of the discussion, the idea that users may not be very familiar with these particular sort of invisible standards but they are getting quite used to the idea of standards in a lot of devices and appliances that they use. So the users are awear of vendor lock in on different operating systems on their computers and becoming aware of the fact that you can't shift from one to the other unless there's some sense -- unless you are complying with some particular standards. They might not know it as standards but know it as a case of standards compliance. There's still a sense of user consumer awareness. My computer has just gone black for some reason. Okay. Yeah, IOT, the so called Internet of Things was also mentioned as a good -- as a likely case where -- where badges to say that you are the -- the devices that you are buying to connect to the Internet actually have been certified as safe for connection and that -- someone said that that could also give the user a base for decisions on how they use a device, whether they rely on it heavily or if they will connect it or just use it in their own home network, for instance. Okay. We spoke about the risks of -- well, the standard cases of market failure because of a lack of incentives for the -- the consumers in the mark, the critical mass was needed and the way to get that critical pass is often through government action, but that's where, again, the multistakeholder process to avoid sort of government top down government enforcement would be necessary. There's also -- I mentioned that in these multistakeholder approaches, they can be formalized to the extent that you are able hasn't process if you are certified to some extent that there is actually a high incentive for companies to avoid fights down the track by getting involved with these discussions as they are going on, but they might also be a tick for entry which could actually sort of precondition some level of, I guess it was about implementation of a certain level of implementation before, before being admitted into those discussions. Geographical areas, we spoke about -- the ones we spoke about were political situations of Internet shutdowns and a question about whether standards -- and we didn't have an answer, but whether standards can help to avoid or to circumvent shutdowns and that's definitely a geographic or geopolitical issue and other big thing is in developing economies that -- that a -- a number of things that migration is -- is costly. So the idea that greenfield deployments of a new standard can be much easier than to take an skating infrastructure and have to upgrade it. So, for instance, you know, the ability that we saw more recently for, different, GS M., to be installed in greenfield environments than would beerying about migration from earlier technology. And so that's actually -- that can be an advantage in developing environments because they done -- they may not be the -- the existing infrastructure and there may be the ability to leap frog the intermediate points but then, again, there's also the question in developing areas these day, not so much of second hand, reliance on second hand equipment being imported but often if that's not the case, it can still often be inferior goods which are being -- which are being sold at more affordable prices in order to, I guess, dump them more or less, and the likelihood of standards compliance could be quite a bit less in those cases. And so which stakeholder groups? We spoke about manufacturing infrastructure providers, government infrastructure developers, may be unaware of the full extent of sort of compliance that would be necessary or how to express that in tendering or how to -- how to judge arrangements like long-term support arrangements for infrastructure that's being deployed, all of their -- there are quite a few factors if contracting that might need to be -- might need to be taken into account. We did agree that consumers must be the benefit -- the beneficiaries, ultimately, of what -- of what we're talking about, but -- and the awareness raising is important. And as we said, yeah, there's a -- a general gaining of sophistication in markets in consumers about device compatibility in this sort of issue and that can be sort of expressed as -- in terms of standards compliance in an educational sense, I guess. Now, I think that's all. That's all I took. So if -- was there anyone else in the -- was there anyone in the group who had anything else to add to that? No? Okay. I'm sure I missed -- I'm sure I missed a lot. >> BARTS HOGEVEEN: Thanks a lot for at least giving, I think, a very comprehensive overview of your discussions. I'm sure there was much more detail to it. >> PAUL WILSON: It seems I did all right. Okay. Thanks. >> BARTS HOGEVEEN: Thanks so much. Olaf, can I give the floor to you for the left-hand side? >> OLAF KOLKMAN: Yes, we were that side, left-hand side, or right-hand side depending on how you look. >> BARTS HOGEVEEN: Maybe you can go over the items that are different from what were mentioned. >> OLAF KOLKMAN: We didn't organize. We started with one question and then we went free forum and meandered around the issues. I think a few of the things that I took away would -- which would fall in the precondition for effective implementation, is that the maturity of the implementation is important. Open source alone is not a -- a panacea for getting deployment. The quality of those products and the documentation of open source or free products is -- is important. And while I'm saying that, one of the things where I -- and we didn't discuss this, but one of the things that I like specifically as an example here is a script which is a technology that's incredibly easy to use. It gives away free certificates and it has given rise to an enormous amount of HTTP sites where there were previously no encryption. It's a specific initiative that I think about now. We talked a lot about what are the drivers, also a sort of preconditions for effective implementations and we came to the conclusion that for the very early adopters, the bragging rights are important. So for the technologists that do OS implementations, like early vista and the people who did the early network implementations -- >> BARTS HOGEVEEN: What are bragging rights? >> OLAF KOLKMAN: The thump your chest I did it, nah, nah, nah. And those bragging rights go with local leaders. If you are a local leader in your community, it gives you a little bit of stature. But in order to get volume, you need more. I think that was one of the things that I learned most is there are two ways that we see things play out. The high level people that say let's mandate this, so our state mandate and then things get implemented at lower levels. Usually they don't work out very well. Sometimes thing at the low level, the people who actually have to do the work and they take bottom up sort of initiative. They sort things out. That works but it's the middle management layer that usually doesn't get the -- doesn't have the buy-in or the understanding or something to make a long-term commitment to an implementation that actually works. So what you see in the cases of the mandates in the US, is that people implemented it and forgot about it, and didn't really have the understanding of what they were doing. So there seems to be a need for a class of different documentation material, not targeted to the CIOs and the CTOs. Not targeted towards the people who have to do the actual hands on work, not the technical type of documentation, but sort of middle management documentation, that is fair about costs that talks about what WSIS are, and the costs of such implementation. I think that was more or less everything that we -- is there something that I missed? I'm looking a little bit around at the people who were in the session. You were not in our session, David. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: No, I know. There's a question. There's an online question from Mr. Fernandez, he's from Mexico and the question is for Olaf. So that's why I'm asking it right now. Is -- what do you foresee -- do you foresee a role for the government in the implementation of Internet standards? What sort of a role? >> OLAF KOLKMAN: So this is something that we didn't really discuss in our setting. I think leading by example is important. But I think also what came out of our session is if you lead by example, you still need the sort of management layers and government to understand what is important. You have to have the -- say, the C. IO of a municipality understand why implementing these standards is important. So leading by example and setting those practices is what I think I took away. >> BARTS HOGEVEEN: Great. Thank you. >> OLAF KOLKMAN: There's one more aspect and it was an economic aspect. With some of these standards, once you get beyond the bragging rights, it's sometimes economic for others and then that credible large end future comes into play and an example for that the belief believe that IOT-connected devices, millions of them will need to be addressed and that's where IPv6 has an incredible arcing. Olivia, you had something to add? >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you. Just one thing, you have written middle class implementers. I think it might be middle management implementers because middle class is a sort of totally different term. Was that what you meant Olaf? >> OLAF KOLKMAN: Yeah, yeah. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Middle management, and not the middle class. >> OLAF KOLKMAN: The class of middle management. >> BARTS HOGEVEEN: Thank you so much for that correction. Last but not least, Bastiaan, would you like to share the thinking of your group, and especially what's different from what has already been mentioned, given that we have about five minutes left. >> BASTIAAN GOSLINGS: Yeah, hi. Thank you. Maybe to follow up on the online question, that was indeed, something that was quite extensively discussed by my group, a group that unfortunately was not as regionally balanced as I hoped for. We had one lady from Mexico. I'm grateful for that. A government official from the UK and the rest were all from Holland. But nonetheless, I think we were all very much convinced the challenges and the problems that out there. Even, you know, it's probably because of the market failure that these items are implemented. When it comes to the question, this didn't suggest a reason for governments, because the market to enforce as regulators, no, I don't think we are as far as that now. It's still very much a focus of open standards compliances, a voluntary use of them, but there's something that needs to be taken into consideration to implement them. There are a couple of examples that demonstrate that it's very much feasible to get things done cooperatively. On the one hand we talked about antidotes, setting up a cooperating scrubbing center but I think smallly, you can establish the fact that that was because of commercial reasons, right, if you are -- well, under attack and your service is not available then you think maybe it is good to subscribe to a service and a subscribing center, which was interesting as what the SDN gave us an example, getting DNSSEC sign. They gave the regular stars a discount, right, if they got the name signed, then they would receive a discount, so that can help. And that's the day registry is in a position to do that and also a nonprofit organization. I think with regard -- there are a couple of topics that we already discussed and I won't go into them now, with regard to what the GFC could do. GFCE. Yes. We agree that you can be involved and create a sense of more urgency. We need -- the ones that need to implement the standards are not here in the discussion. That's also something that we just talked about, so the ISPs and others, the stakeholders are not here. Maybe that's something that the GFCE could be involved to get them involved. Something else that the GFCE could do, is focus on the more and better statistics and proof of exploited. We have Internet analysis as an example, but there's a lot more stuff that's coming in, to actually demonstrate that this is a significant cost for society, if these standards are not implemented. Maybe a bit of naming and shaming when appropriate, based on facts and the statistics I just mentioned, and obviously in terms of education and sharing knowledge, I think this became clear from the Mexican example that three see the sense but there's a lot of knowledge on the technical side that's lacking and so there could be a role for the GFCE in terms of capacity building. >> BARTS HOGEVEEN: Great. Thanks so much. Thank all of you for pointing to this last and maybe for the important questions what kind of activities can these initiatives employ to enhance the implementation standards. Thank you very much for the contributions and the three facilitators to supervise this. We were talking about the costs and the benefits and I was witnessing a conversation not too long ago between the two main Internet service providers in the Netherlands, KPN and CIGO where KPN, says I want to be 100% because then that's also how you have a marked advantage so I can show to my customers that I'm complying. I'm paraphrasing what has been said, uphill competition in the sense that in the first round of compliance and they also give you a market advantage. Thank you so much for the contributions. I think I owe you a little bit of -- how do you say, that a presentation of what are we going to do with these -- with these outposts. If you can switch to the PowerPoint, what we will do, is that the outcomes of this session, among some other research and consultations we have will be set into a project document, which will be let's say, in terms of capacity building and I gave you some good anchor points to focus on that. If you are interested, and I hope you are, please follow the progress that is being made, which can -- which can be found on the IGC.com website, and maybe the most important question in let's say open invitation that I would like to give to you of those would are interested either here or online if you are interested to join this initiative, either as a -- somebody who can provide certain expertise or certain good practice or that you want to either in your country or within your organizations to increase the implementation of these standards, you can reach out to us and bring the expertise to you. If there's any other feedback, we would also be very curious to learn from that. So I think we are wrapping up. Thank you so much for your contributions and hope to -- no, I forgot one thing. Because we have a very specific group in the -- in the back of the room, and I would be very curious to Lear maybe one or two sentences of what you are doing and what you took away from the session. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: We are not stopping each other. Actually, I'm the teacher and four of the students from Hong Kong to join this IGF and want to learn more and want to learn more about the world. And about the topic, it is mainly for the adult world, but we also have some ideas about that, that know whether it's correct or not. The first one when we talk about the good practices and of course first is the school or some community centers, but, of course, they are young. So they should be under surveillance and the second one about effective or something like that. Of course in the Internet, should we have the software to make sure that they can go to some good websites. Of course, all the contempt should be taught at school. And number three is talking about, of course, we done want to have discrimination because it's talking about geographical cares. So that -- but, of course, we believe that last developed the country should have more concern about. And the next one is about the stakeholders. We believe throughout these days we have an idea, we have to care about the woman, kid or ethnic minorities. Last but not least, about the initiative and consideration as they are kids, they should have some computer workshop or make it bigger, we should put it into our school curriculum to implement and make them to have more understanding on these topics. Thank you. >> BARTS HOGEVEEN: Thank you so much for that and thank you so much for being here and sharing your thoughts. I think that really puts a dot behind this workshop and thank you so much. (Applause). (End of session 12:20 p.m. central time). RAW FILE INTERNET GOVERNANCE FORUM 2016 ENABLING INCLUSIVE AND SUSTAINABLE GROWTH JALISCO, MEXICO 9 DECEMBER 2016 OF8: CUBA 12:30 Services Provided By: Caption First, Inc. P.O. Box 3066 Monument, CO 80132 1 877 825 5234 +001 719 481 9835 www.captionfirst.com *** This text is being provided in a rough draft Format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) or captioning are provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. *** (OF8. Cuba). >> FERNANDO ORTEGA CABRERA: Good afternoon, everyone. My colleague, Mr. Fernando Ortega Cabrera. Today we want to present how teachers and students using the Internet in our country to work in a collaborative way. So now we want to share with you a video and then we are going to present some projects that we are going -- we are working on recently and like I said before, we came from Cuba. So after this presentation and the video, we are going to speak in Spanish. Thank you for being here with us. Please. >> Given society is gradually computerized despite economic difficulties, it's not unassociated to that. So this represents the help of individuals in science and technology. ? Two educational channels were creates and developed as a support net for the Cuban educational system at all teaching levels. This context, the computerredcation program of the Ministry of Education of republic of Cuba emerges and we study the subject of info Matics is created, conceived in three modalities as an object of study as a working tool and as a teaching aide. To implement this new discipline, it was necessary to train the required staff and equip schools with the needed hardware. Computerized classrooms were created to allow students into those spaces within the school itself. Meanwhile, as part of the program of computerization of the Cuban society, and the provision of inclusive access to information technologies, to the general population, several computerized facilities have been established throughout the country, in every community. These centers are known as hub of informatics. The use of computers as a teaching aid motivated the use of computers in all pedagogical universities. That multidisciplinary teams including writers, graphic designers audio visual special ills ensure the production of learning resources. Especially the preschool sector, the general introduction of communication and information technologies was accompanied by a thorough research process, which results allowed us to identify and validate a formula for the use of these technologies, in compliance with the national concept of the educational process. These research work was carried out in a ten-year period, by a multidisciplinary group of experts with the objective of testing the effectiveness of the use of information technologies within computers and the like by groups of children, age 4 to 6 years. And see if it promotes cognitive development. The probe was focused on created on creating ergonomic concept that guaranteed the appropriate use of educational informatics in that age group. As part of this policy, particular attention is paid to a special education, that guarantees the inclusion of people with special educational needs in any academic or social context. With his aim, several media and computer resources were introduced in the school, including voice, synthesizers, braille printers and scanners and the development of an interactive sign language dictionary for deaf students. ? Other devices include the master box, the computer device, as well as touch screens and smart keyboards to help the student's potential. ? The poor access to Internet required the creation of an internal computer network, resulting in the very successful portal Cuba ajuka, targeting each of the three potential users, students, teachers, and the family. This site is also integrated into the Latin American network of educational portals. Software collections such as let's play for kindergarten children, or elementary school, for secondary education, future for high school students, and premedical for foreign students who start medical school in Cuba are a sample of Cuba's parade into new educational technologies. They join work with conference in Latin America, Asia, Africa, oceana and results in the campaign yes I can, and yes, I can go on, with the support of these TV channels. The variety of computer and audiovisual resources boasted by our educational portal attracts the attention of many countries interested in developing projects with Cuba in the field of technology for intense learning. Such is the case of Mexico, Colombia, Guatemala and Nicaragua, among others. Cuban education is betting on the production and the use of computer and audio visual resources developed by teachers. good afternoon, what we wanted to tell about you in this video was outlook of the educational context, the technological context that we have in today's schools in Cuba. Today Cuba, a small Cuban island that was under blockade for over 50 years, a country that devotes more than 13% of its GDP to education with 1600 educational centers that -- where we see education that's inclusive, where all children have the same opportunities, the same benefits throughout the entire country. Today, the country has a wealth of computer technologies that are available and use in three basic areas, training. Teachers, and ICTs within all parameters and all UNESCO. Standards, training of students, and ITC training program in which we are -- we are developing new textbooks and new equipment, and training of or production of contents for parents so that they can also support their students in students' desire to learn throughout their education from K through higher learning. In Cuba, we have one very important strong point, and that is production of content. Contents in Cuba are produced by the teachers for the teachers. We have a company that's devoted specifically to this end, with teachers who have over 20 years of experience. They produce this wealth of information where they use over 85 curricular software to enable development of skills in teacher training, labs in each of our teacher training schools because we may be under a blockade. Perhaps we haven't had access that we would have dreamt to have. We have had to work within the limits of our economic development, but even at that, we have been able to ensure inclusion for all, where everyone in the country has access to the tools that we have. We have 236,000 users that have access to the education ministry, with full access to education in our Cuban schools. And with that is, however, not enough. We have 2 million students, almost 2 million students and 126,000 teachers with the -- these figures, we're still -- we still haven't enabled everyone to reach to have access to the systems that we have in the country. We are, however, working on this, and it is the desire of the government, political party to have a standardization of the educational system with access for all and we believe with greater economic funding we will be able to give access to all centers so that all schools and our educational centers have access to the network. The Cuban network with the portals, the Cuba Jaduca, where we have all the contents of the study plan for Cuba, and throughout -- through that portal, we have three basic spaces, one we focus on teachers, because the teachers need the experience and they develop where we can develop the contempts provided by experienced teachers and then we focus on students, with the exercise, with the different levels of help, with videos that enable us to reinforce the contents that students receive in their classrooms and three spaces for families. So families can accompany this irrelevant children and devote themselves to teaching them at the same time. As I was saying, we perhaps -- since we don't have enough schools, cubans have had to be creative and the use ever these portals have enabled us, such as Cuban, Juduca, enables us to allow greater techion to -- for all students in the country, and giving access to students of the same contents of students who are in the schools or would do have access to the online education. We also have a concept of work online. Our work online is used for teachers, for students, developing the ability for research, of information, emails, online encyclopedias, Wikipedias. We have a project within the country for Wikipedia, under the wiki concept. We have developed this to build knowledge and enable students to study through the wiki system. We also do our best so that all students in the school have information to the same information, the study plans used in the country, multiknowledge search engines, and in Jugard where we have a collection of different tools that are available to preschool and kindergarten students. The fact that not all centers are connected to the system doesn't mean that we haven't dreamt of being able to grow so that the centers can all eventually be connected. What we have done so far is work very hard on connecting everyone through email. We have got two projects that we're in love with, one of them is called the juntando aulas. Children have access to social media, Twitter, Facebook, and thus are able to be in contact with other sister schools in other countries. For instance, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Colombia, the municipality of Florencia, and in capital, where we have a sister school as well. We have been working on that project for a little over five years. We see what we have to do so these students can work in collaboration, in research, online, so that they can complete projects, school projects and what students in one rural municipalities such as Raul in central Cuba can have been contact with the mountainous school areas that can be in contact with other students in Colombia. Colombian students that have been able to visit and get to know face-to- face some of our students. We have to look at the quality. The quality of the research projects that are undertaken by early school students. It's posh to see how they grow in this system and how they grow in their ability to do research but also in how they grow as individuals and so that they can be the people of tomorrow with all of the contributions and skills available in today's society. Another project is the hula hula project and this is a project of an educational nature. It's for all schools in Cuba, of the 1600 schools that are connected in the student network, where they have this same benefits that any social network could provide to them. They share information, videos. They exchange experiences. They chat. All of this work is done within a social network. And this network has been a great stimulus for the students because it's not just educational stimulus, educational achievements working with their teachers, and doing their homework but they also get to know other students in other provinces. And through this, they are able to do online searches for information, and to have an environment that is a little bit closed -- that is more closed but it's an educational system that enables them to truly focus on their educational projects. The policy of the country is to not have educational constraints but to have it open and it's also important for the students to be in a closed environment so they can focus properly on their work. So these are the two projects that have been very successful in the country, and this is what we are doing to develop Internet use amongst our students and enabling students -- the teachers at the same time to prepare their lessons because internet access is free of charge for everyone in the country, this -- the Cuban state finances all of these expenses. The 65,000 computers distributed throughout the country with monitors that are distributed throughout the country as well, free of charge, because we have an educational channel, 24 hour programming, that is all education based, where we have -- we provide reinforcement of subjects, where all subjects are covered on the channel, where we've got educational houses that produce the educational contents on the basis of the needs of Cuban schools today. And all of this is complimented by a -- a harmonious environment where we have got computer labs, with common spaces, where teachers can enjoy the collaborative research for information and if any of the municipalities or cities are not connected, they can always have access to these educational channels on the television so that they can prepare their lessons. And I repeat, this is all free of charge. No Cuban teacher is charged, even one red cent to have access to this information, so that they can premier their study plans. And students as their correct study habits and learning are prepared, then they are all -- they also have access to the Internet insofar as they approach higher -- their higher education, because we don't necessarily have the ITC availability for all students. But as they get older, they do have access. I repeat, the blockade, the embargeO. meant that we with respect able to have this for everyone, but we are now working on providing this at a greater quality level for the students so that they can learn as well as any other student the world over in government schools. If you have any questions, I will be very happy to take them. (Applause). >> Please. First you, and then you. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon, everyone. I come from the university of Guadalajara. First, I want to congratulate you on your program, your inclusion program, when it comes to ITCs. Talking about ITC, I have some questions about 9 labor market, the labor market is focusing on ICTs. And we are trying to help students so they can get a job in outsourcing companies. So the question is the following: Do you have the same type of training, labor training? Do you have companies of this size on the island? >> Allow me to say something, general education in Cuba, up to the university level includes -- technological ICT program for communication purposes. So we have the specialization of students in the area of information and communication technologies. We also concentrate on the training of new teachers. We have some hours devoted to the training of ICT language. We have a major, a BA of five years, in order to train ICT teachers. We start right from the beginning. We start developing the skills and the skills when it comes to the use of devices, including computers and portable phones. The society of the -- the I can has to be part of the society development and this is especially true in the training of resources, especially for those who will be training future teachers. We also have the director of Sinisova. They create resources. For training, the general population. It works on open training sessions for different jobs, for different areas. And also distance education, we also have a program with different syllabuses, for different degrees and the universities also use these distance education platform. I have to say that in Cuba, the basic education goes up to the 12th grade. And then we have at the university degrees and I don't know if -- with this I have answered your questions. ,. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Now we have Cuca. I also come representing Cuba in this forum. I represent companies sponsored by the telecommunications minister. Following up on this question, I think it is important to know that companies have an ICT commitment. The software is seen as a service. Of course, we are going to have opportunities as the one that you were mentioning and this includes the training of students and technicians and they are part of the human resource of our companies. So we have an open business model that allows us to have programs -- programs for those coming from different regions of the island and different regions of Latin America. Latin America, we have to take advantage of our common language. They come from other places of origin. They learn from our specialists, not only in terms of the creation of those software tools. They also receive technological support. They learn about the identification of customer needs. These imply an outsourcing scheme and this is an opportunity for companies. Now the software is sold as a service, not -- not as a product. Obviously in Cuba, we look at software as a service and as a product. And because of this, we have these training capabilities, these updating capabilities because of the reasons I was mentioning, three is important for us as Cubans. So we have the development of a training -- oh, the development of skills of trainings. I also come from Cuba, from the institute of youth. You were talking about the labor market. 89 company participations in the training of students in schools. The students spend sometime in Cuban companies. They have internships in Cuban companies as in any case when they finish university, they have a position in a company. When you finish your IT degree, you will have a position in a company. You don't have a problem in that sense. And this is something that goes hand in hand with training. You are trained in schools and you are also trained in companies. I have to mention one strength of the educational system. We have the concept of additional training. You don't have to wait until you finish university to be trained in companies if you are part of a degree, your degree includes being trained in companies. You have the opportunity to interact with professionals in that field. The student will learn about their future, and this is the idea of this corporate internship. >> APC in San Francisco, the United States. And I want to congratulate the brothers and sisters from Cuba for helping to develop Internet education, despite the obstacle of the blockade, which the United States has imposed on Cuba. I think the world has some great opportunities. Internet has a -- is a vehicle to help educate and link up the world together, but there are major obstacles. A big part of this conference, IGF is the lack of accessibility around the world, in Africa, in poor countries. And one of the problems with that lack of access is the fact that the capital corporations, the media monopolies like Facebook and Google only want to invest if they make a profit. So the development of access is not a question of need for people, but can a company make profit? And I think that your example of providing access to everyone as a basic right is something that we have to exemplify around the world. Even in the United States, people don't have access, in rural communities to Wi-Fi because big media monopolies don't want to provide it. They can't make money from it. The issue of municipal Wi-Fi is very important. The other aspect that I want to bring up is how the Internet is now being used to privatize education. In the United States, Google, Facebook, big companies are taking over the schools. They are privatizing schools through charters, and one of the things they are doing is they are pushing the senior teachers out, bringing in younger teachers and putting students in front of computers for two or three hours a day. Young students. And they are making profit from education. In is a threat to the health of students and that also means the senior teachers and it takes time to be teachers are being driven out and scapegoated. You have to ask yourself -- and I don't think that's a problem in Cuba -- why are the teachers in. United States blamed for the education system. Why are we being blamed for the crisis? It's a lack of funding and it's the fact that so much money in the United States goes to the military. You save 50% of your wealth or your resources go to education, social services, 50% of the United States and more goes to the military. So I would say our job in the United States is to say that the money that is going to the military should go to education and should go to the people of United States. That's what we have to fight for in the United States. I want to thank up and congratulate you again for your work in Cuba. (Applause). (Awaiting English translation). Internet governance is very important for young people. How are you integrating these concepts in the educational process. How are you fostering the participation of young people? And what are the projects that you have in terms of governance as part of the Cuban educational program? >> The education system here in Cuba, here represented by us, includes very young children. We start with very young children. We teach children and young people about governance. It is not like the university education in those instances, we have classes about that, where we actually talk about Internet Governance. In the case of students in Cuba, well, we are trying to improve the education system and this is something that we do on a regular basis, as part of the silly bass, and the use of the Internet. So with these new programs, students will receive information about general culture on this type of contents. We are training teachers. We are training them on the use of Internet. We have trained them about training. I don't know how to explain this. This is because of the technological limitations that our country had. We didn't have satellites a few decades ago. So access to Internet was a very complex in Cuba. It was limited. Now thanks to Alba, we have fiber optics. We have broadband. And we have been connecting at different centers. So we are training the teachers of those centers. Before giving them the service, because we are not going to tell them, here, you have Internet. Learn about it yourself. No, we have to create the basic ICT skills. We are working very hard. We are working in the development of these programs. So students actually receive these Internet culture right from the beginning. And in the case of universities, well, they will have to work on these more specifically with a more scientific perspective, but we have to take the first steps and this is what we are actually doing. We have a group of teachers. We have have a coupe of researchers led by the institute of teacher training and they are in charge of this process throughout the country. So this is me. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: I come from Mexico. I'm representing the global institution of engineers, the IEEE. I came to the end of the presentation. So I want to know what agencies generate and develop and support the Internet infrastructure, especially the nature that you have. You talk about some technical problems that this generates. >> I'm here representing the Ministry of Education. I don't know about telecommunications. I will tell about you the problems that Cubans face. In Cuba, Internet became satellite based very recently. We didn't have access to broadband, both for uploading and downloading. We have didn't have the resources and we had to provide a service to doctors, to universities, and it was a very limited band. But in Cuba, we have a wealth, human resources. You can block us, but what we have, we share. And we are self-trained in order to take the quantum leap. In Cuba, we have degrees. IT degrees. We have have a number of several society organizations bringing together IT professionals both from the stay and from known government organizations. And they are learning about programming. They are learning about system analysis. They are learning about deployment. We have an Army of people who haven't been trained in the use of the ICTs. Yes, we have a blockage. Our telecommunication companies have got many problems when it comes to acquiring equipment and this is because of different patents but it doesn't mean that we are not looking for other ways out. This is what I can actually tell you from my own perspective. This is Fernando's perspective. Juanita, do you want to talk about this? >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: We have Juan Fernandez, he is -- he comes up from the ministry of telecommunications, yes. Allow me. This is is about education. The forum is about education. The panelists are specialists in the area of education resources, using ICTs. Now, this question goes beyond the scope of this forum, the infrastructure of Internet in Cuba. As my colleague has already pointed out, Internet connects you to the world. And this is something that we have to understand. Cuba was not a regular country like the others. We have to take into consideration that we have an economic blockage against Cuba. This is something very concrete. It has been on for many years, and this has resulted in losses amounting to $130 billion, resources that could have been used for other purposes, in the case of technologies, well, there are many technologies that companies cannot sell to the Cuban market and because of these, our conditions have been very difficult. This is something that you have to bear in mind. However, this is a reality. We have fallen behind in the implementation of these technologies. That's true. And we are working in order to change these situations. We are connecting the worldwide web using fiber optics with a very high prices because, remember, the IP market is a monopoly. ISPs increase where the IP market is very restricted. I don't know in you were at the opening ceremony. The Afghan representative talked about the cost of the mega bit in their country, in the case of Cuba, the cost is also very high because of those limitations. As I was telling you, it is a reality, but we are working on that. We are going to increase the access. It is not a secret that our levels of access to internet are very low in comparison to the region, but in the index of human development, we are in position number two, in terms of education, we are number one. In the case of inclusion of women in society, we are number one. These technologies are -- well, we have technologies, limited technologies but we have done enough with those technologies but, of course, it doesn't mean that we are not going to continue developing these technologies. We are going to continue supporting these efforts and these achievements. We want to take them to the next level. So this is what we can actually say. People talk about rankings and this is the information that we can give you about the Inc. are aings and how Cuba is positioned in this. And this is something that we have achieved ourselves. (Applause) >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am Tanya, with the Cuban delegation. I would like to -- to talk about the actions of the Cuban government when it comes to training students. I have to say that 30 years ago, Fidel Castro promoted an initiative to create IT centers in order to digitize the society. We were talking about 1987 and this was rather new for the time. Each of the municipalities created a center whose aim was to digitize the society. We have many of these centers from remountainous areas to urban areas. There, students and others, especially elders have access to all the programs that our agency has created. And thanks to these programs, we can train on ICT technologies. Social networks, and many other topics, and this is also -- this is a distance education. That is to say, in an informal way, children have another way of being trained when it comes to ICTs. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Victor from ISOC, Dominican Republic. It is true that Cuba has one of the highest levels of education in the world, and they are working on the connectivity of the island but when it comes up to ICTs, we have the problem of privacy. From your perspective, what are the tools. How do you teach children about privacy? You have schools and these are closed networks and you collect information about the activities of students and teachers. Do you -- do you teach children about the privacy of ICTs? >> As I was mentioning, before yes, of course. And this is one of the first things we teach them. We teach them about security. Internet security as we call it on the island. I am talking about changing your password frequently and it is about avoiding Spam emails. It is a little bit different. We are not as developed as other regions and this is because of the limitations we have already mentioned. But I am going to say, what I have already said, we are working on new projects. We are working on new syllabuses, we are working on new books. Are the use of ICTs cannot be seen only from the perspective of traditional computer. It is not about a PC a mouse. We have to think about the flexibility, something that we have everywhere, and now you can have access to Internet from any device. If we have to think about the cloud technology, we have to think about -- about training our students, about access to information and their risks. We have a strength the education is provided by the ministry of education. We haven't got transnational companies sucking on the information -- on the personal information of our students. That information is part of the network of the Ministry of Education. We haven't got any risks right now. I don't know, maybe some -- we have some users on Facebook or Google, these international sites. Maybe they are putting their information at risk, but when it comes to personal information of teachers and students, that information remains in the network of the Ministry of Education. We have gotten statistical information about that. We need to know about the activities of the students. We need to know about the activities of the users. We have to optimize the user by means of the statistical information. That's the information we have got. Apart from that, we have black lists in order to close down some sites that might be dangerous for the education our students, pornography, harassment. We are continuously surveilling the network, trying to identify these type of attacks and closing down sites that might be a danger for students, but this doesn't mean that we are limiting the information, and this happens all around the world, all countries have a black list. And you have to take into consideration that our services are educational services and so we have to work with children right from kindergarten, and some information is not to go to those environments. We try to avoid children from being the victims of this type of situations. We are talking about very small children and we are not going to close the net. We are used to looking after our users. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Helen, and I'm a librarian and I work with IFLA as well. I had the opportunity to go to Cuba a few weeks ago to the Info Congress and I would like to tell you about a reality that I experienced there that I was surprised about and admire. You have done a great deal with a great deal left. You have great creativity and internal innovation to be able to reach the entire population. I was able to visit libraries and they were full of people! I think this is part of your educational system, your infrastructure. I saw young people, children, senior citizens, adults of all ages, I saw computers and everyone using computers. I don't know if it was an Internet or an extranet or the Internet. So I'm excited to see what the needs of the population are. Another very important point, literacy. I didn't find anyone who was ill lit irate on that visit. I found people who were truly cultured with a great deal of knowledge and since. We like to see that in countries that are so-called very democratic. We don't see that level of culture. There's a great deal of poverty and ignorance and I will literacy through many parts of the world. What we are trying to do is achieve the SDGs, or the sustainable development goals of 2030. So I believe you have done a great deal with very little. It's terrible that you have had to deal with the embargo, but I do believe that you have done a great deal and you will be able to achieve your goals. So congratulations. >> Thank you, Dr. Helen who I met just this morning. Indeed because she heard my voice, she understood -- she saw my accent and said I was Cuban approached me. The issue of privacy is not something that came with the Internet, the constitution of Cuba that. It includes all the elements that have to do with priority. Implementation of any technology that happens in the country is automatically regulated by those principles. If you are interested in having more information with respect to current resolutions of the ministry of communications that -- that regulates management of this topic, well being you can come to us and tell you about it. We just published a book called public information, current Debbancey is, information of women and 2020 citizens that includes work by people from Cuba, Venezuela, Chile and Mexico. I can send you that book. We are in the process of undertaking constitutional amendments and I believe that with those amendments, our constitution will be updated, because -- not because the constitution wasn't able to do that but rather because we are very interested in ensure that the constitution is able to be up to date from its preamble, in its efforts to defend human decency and dignity throughout the country. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon. My name is Renata and I'm from Brazil. I would like to hear a little bit more about the Hula Hula project. Can you tell me how it was developed, what type of contents were included in the project. Are there any types of controls that are on contents that not appropriate, where they blocked the children and the young people who published their own content? I would like to know how that works? Can you tell me more about it. >> That's a project that rose in a province of the country, through the education ministry or the methodologists and the teachers of Cienfuegos province in central Cuba who proposed this project to have this educational network, and the creation of the network. Since it's educational in nature and it came about in the ministry of education, then it includes the premises of secular education, the commitment of all for all. As a result, the students have the right to publish everything that is included in the educational context. Like any network, there's a group of specialists that moderate and deal with the network and if there's any content that is interappropriate for the standards for publication on the network, they are deleted. They just notify the people who included that content in the projects to let them know that it will be deleted. But the socialization is the purpose. First of all, it's students that share their content and that that information secondly can be shared from the school level and that it can be shared with the different educational centers throughout the call, they enter our country. Sharing as well, applications and tools provided through the network, through social media, to develop the skills of our students, so as to encourage them to go to school, to continue to study, and so that the teachers can also have spaces to be able to share there are experiences as teachers. The students know that the most famous teacher in the history of the school is the teacher at the school next door and not at their schools. So those experiences are shared in that network, that social network, and the teachers are asked questions by students in neighboring schools. So there's a great sharing of -- of teacher experiences and student experiences. It's a new project. It's only been around for the past year. We love it but we are working on it intensely. We are working on it in an ongoing fashion. It's been well accepted pong our students and our teachers and we have seen that there's a huge demand from the students to be able to have access to this network because we innocent what to be able to share their information and to hear from other students what is going on. We have only got five minutes left. So I will take one or two more questions only. We as coordinators invite children to tell us what topics they are interested in hearing about on these networks and they are communicating with children of other schools and other countries. So they start working on resources for communication, educational resources, so as to be able to work, for instance, on water topics, giving them the ability to share information and learnings, experiences, and clearly these students, what they first do is to talk about those things, how they live, what their school is like. When you were talking about the projects that we were talk with Costa Rica and other countries, the classrooms that came about as a result of this creating greater interactivity. The topic of Colombia, for instance, how the students are participating and sharing information with recognition of their collaboration, so as to be able to work on the environment, for instance, as one of the projects. So topics have been generated that have led to awards and recognitions internationally. Teachers that are give and wards well beyond the idea of just teacher of the year, for instance, but teachers that have been very important in terms of their ability to communicate these projects to other teachers and other students in other learning centers in the country and elsewhere. It's not necessarily face to face education, but global participation, hopefully we'll be able to see the sister classrooms, projects and the Hula Hula project become even more global because it's the direct presence of these schools and these students on the networks because sometimes people think that in Cuba we don't let people be in contact with other people outside of the country, but that's not true. What we want is for people and students and teachers to be in contact with people all over the world because they have the need to communicate with other people, under the structure of educational protection, of course and with the support of Cuban government. Yes, sir? One final question. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you very much. My name is Ricardo and I'm the ambassador for special education and I'm very interested in finding out how you develop this educational system because we undoubtedly agree on the fact that cybersecurity and its culture needs to begin in the first steps of training, of what it means to have gained access to the Internet, interacting with users from other countries. As you said with respect to the sister schools project. So I believe that this is very important, and we congratulate you for this work. But the most important agenda has to do with security and in that sense, I wanted to ask you, within the educational environment, over the past few years, how do you conceive of cybersecurity as it's been seen in the different fora here? It's a matter of having children connect with other countries, or colleagues in other countries, but the topic, as has just been mentioned, it can be a conversation on the topic of water, for instance, but my question is: Is there a model or a curriculum within your program that specifically refers to security issues, for instance, how do you deal with antivirus programs or what to do so that there are attacks through dialogues with other people, these types of issues that are strictly security related? >> Thank you for your question. We would like to frame it within what we have been discussing today. Yes, within the computer sciences program, we frame that within the sciences and technology area. And from early years, K through 12, we teach students about security and we have teachers that are devoted full time to teaching those subjects. In addition, we are also updating this content and this information dealing with collaborative work online and social networks because eight or ten years ago, for instance, we didn't see the same level of development that we have today. So there are seminars, for instance, that are methodology -- methodologically included in the content and those contents are enriched so that the students are trained and the teachers that teach the subject matter are trained in that respect as well and these didactic units are also updated in terms of the importance of using antivirus programs, as well as programs, as well as individual security online. Yes, for the workers and teachers, prior to having direct contact with the Internet, and with the technology per se, they need to take a -- ICT security course so as to be up to date on antivirus, personal security, password security so that they are able to master that information. They need to take a short course on cybersecurity, if you will, or ICT security, before they are able to teach that information. And now professor from the Cuban delegation will address a few worlds to us because we only have two more minutes. >> Yes, my name is Mr. Caputa, I'm from the Interinstitutional communications department of the Ministry of Education. But we should -- you should know that we have our own antivirus system that operates throughout the country, and it is continuously updated on the basis of international trends, and in addition to international focus, we also have our own -- our own input including our code of ethics that has to do with -- with the -- how things are done in the country, and we teach the students on that basis. So as to increase connectivity and because of the financial blockade, the embargo, our economic activity was terribly curbed in this sense. All of the measures that have to do with cybersecurity were developed and we are developing our own means to deal with in the country as a result. >> Yes, you have the floor, sir. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon, thank you. I represent the company Besttel, which is one of the Internet service providers here in Mexico. But my question doesn't have to do with services but rather, I would like to know about the educational model in Cuba given that the level of I literacy in the country is zero and as was mentioned, here today, the level of school attendance is very high. School dropout rates is relatively -- or is nil, and this is something that does not happen in other countries, but I think that that far from the limitations that you may have in terms of access to information or to the Internet has to do with the model, the educational model that Cuba provides to its students. So -- do you have access to Internet too as a means of access to information for their development, for instance? Well, the educational model is a model that that is enriched by Cuban pedagogic system. We have you're Cuban teacher training system that has been in existence since our struggle for independence, since the revolution. So today, I would say that the greatest work of all is that the students be at the core of the educational process. That they be at the core of the teaching and the learning process and that all teachers and resources be devoted to enabling students to become a part of Cuban society and economy. In Cuba, all citizens of the country have the duty and the right to be educated. As a result, they all have the right to learn to gain degrees, to take courses at higher education institutions. As a result, we have no illiterate citizens as a result of the revolutionary system, we had a literacy campaign where children are who knew how to read and right would go out to the countryside, with a lamp to each others how to read and right. And that was the program, the campaign that was used throughout the school to fight the scourge of I literacy that existed way back when. We didn't stop at that. We created method of, yes, I can. And yes, I can continuing. These programs enabled people to identify more than just letters but rather identify words and to not just be able to count electric one to two, but to be able to do their sums and to add and subtract and multiply and divide. It enabled more than 7 million individuals to learn, to read and write through the system. In the Cuban system which is an internationalist system. In a country that has not sought anything in exchange other than eradicate the courage of illiteracy so that people can have a decent living because they know how to read and write. >> What we want to achieve with our education system. We fought for Cuba by means of the revolution and we came to realize that education was the actual element to develop the freedom of our people. We can have different theories telling us that we are free, but if you don't know how to use your freedom, then you are not free. So as Fernando was saying, ever since 1961, we wanted to have an educated people, people who knew about their freedom. I think that's the actual strength of the Cuban people, the education system that is free of charge. A universal system, and equal system for everyone, from the moment you are born, till you die. Not many people can actually say that they study throughout the live Forbe the benefit of society. The purpose is to study in order to foster the development of the community. This is a free of charge of education. The government is paid by the government, our GDP is mainly used for education -- for health, because we need to have health and to education. The government is making sure that all the participants, all the stakeholders work so children can go to the school. In order to chief the limit of capabilities. In the toughest times of the revolution, Cuba doesn't close schools. They didn't stop at the training of the teachers. We have one teacher for every 25 students. We have an education system that actually guarantees the resources free of charge, pencils, uniforms, food for children, the only concern of the family and the children is to be educated, to actually use this benefit. It is a social organization where we have the participation of all the stakeholders, including the state. All have the responsibility to foster the educational system. So companies have to accept the internship of students. Because the society as a whole has to contribute towards the education of everyone. And this is by constitution. And this is for the benefit of everyone, as the -- as a chapter number one of our constitution reads. The number one priority of our country is in order to achieve actual freedom, is education. [ Applause ] >> Well, I want to thank everyone for your participation in this forum. We haven't got more time. We have to close this session, and now we can actually exchange some ideas individually. Thank you very much. (End of session 1:45 p.m.) Copyright © 2016 Show/Hide Header